Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
There is absolutely nothing inherent in being Jewish that means you can't be a fascist. The current Israeli government is packed with them.
Why Conspiracy Theories?
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mixed_biscuits
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ur so brayve...now what does she have in common with them other than being Jewish tho? What has she done to be deemed fascist by you?
Clinamenic
Binary & Tweed
Will Mr Tea take the bait?
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
The mere fact that you're prepared to stick up for her in order to draw me into one of these stupid arguments is all the argument I need.
And that is as far as this one is going.
mixed_biscuits
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Okay, so you have no reason; what a gallant
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
mixed_biscuits
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Note the definition - https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fascism - ie. not just 'something or someone wot I don't like'
mixed_biscuits
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If you could actually justify your intemperate ejaculation you would - in a trice
She has criticisms of the handling of COVID too.
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
mixed_biscuits
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Well, good, everyone should have them, even if they aren't the same criticisms; it's part of being sentient.
What I'm getting at is that a wholesale compartmentalisation of 'conspiracy theorising' is utterly untenable given the general map-is-not-the-territoryness of life and its representations.
I think, to her, "conspiracy theorising" is predominantly the territory of the right wing crank. You can point to kernels of truth within some of their theories, but, if there's any truth to them, there's likely a left wing explanation that focuses on systems and institutions rather than Satanic cabals or "The Jews".
In a recent interview she stressed the importance of rigorous systems analysis to offer an alternative to the people in danger of falling down those rabbit holes. A similar argument to the one made by The Invisible Committee in Conspiracist Manifesto about not ceding the territory to the right:
Freud called delusions an attempt at a cure; they initiate the process of making sense of experiences that cannot be processed otherwise. Nobody chooses to be delusional—something to keep in mind when interacting with proletarians who might resort to conspiracy theories to explain their motives for opposing the ruling class. That’s not to say that delusions can’t be wrong or incredibly harmful; the point is to develop a new analytic method of listening and working with these beliefs rather than positioning oneself a priori against them. Perhaps one shortcoming of the Conspiracist Manifesto is that it neglects to formulate such an analytic method—something that would work to counter the obvious fact of identification and belief and lend conspiratorial thinking an ever more exact articulation, preventing a total break with reality.
... although I've made my misgivings about their particular strategy known in another thread as their intention seems to be to use those beliefs rather than dismantle them.
In a recent interview she stressed the importance of rigorous systems analysis to offer an alternative to the people in danger of falling down those rabbit holes. A similar argument to the one made by The Invisible Committee in Conspiracist Manifesto about not ceding the territory to the right:
Freud called delusions an attempt at a cure; they initiate the process of making sense of experiences that cannot be processed otherwise. Nobody chooses to be delusional—something to keep in mind when interacting with proletarians who might resort to conspiracy theories to explain their motives for opposing the ruling class. That’s not to say that delusions can’t be wrong or incredibly harmful; the point is to develop a new analytic method of listening and working with these beliefs rather than positioning oneself a priori against them. Perhaps one shortcoming of the Conspiracist Manifesto is that it neglects to formulate such an analytic method—something that would work to counter the obvious fact of identification and belief and lend conspiratorial thinking an ever more exact articulation, preventing a total break with reality.
... although I've made my misgivings about their particular strategy known in another thread as their intention seems to be to use those beliefs rather than dismantle them.
mixed_biscuits
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Yes, this is the problem: arbitrary compartmentalisation.
As for the left/right distinction, left wing partisan gabble is mainly conspiracy theorising with the occluded agents, fingers pointed at particular persons or at quasi-mysterious ethers, being variously 'capitalism', 'racism', 'toxic masculinity', 'Jews' (hello, Israel discourse!!), 'Christianity' etc. etc. so claiming that the LW is somehow unaffected by a demonstrably universal (and in part rational) tendency is an anagram of omicron
mixed_biscuits
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There are actually philosophical papers on conspiracy theorising but the set of people who mouth off about the phenomenon and the set who have actually thought properly about it are disjoint.
mixed_biscuits
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Oh good, sounds like she isn't actually making a point at all when it comes down to it
mixed_biscuits
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https://theintercept.com/2023/09/15/deconstructed-naomi-klein-doppelganger-book/ - she's just waffling in this interview, no systematic thinking
I'm not arguing she's doing rigorous analysis herself. She's obviously trying, but what I'm saying is her point about conspiracy theory currently being dominated by the right and the left needing to combat that by offering a rigorous alternative strikes me as true.