luka
Well-known member
Fair enough. I just don't want to trot out the usual cliches if we can avoid it.
Why Conspiracy Theories?
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Fair enough. I just don't want to trot out the usual cliches if we can avoid it.
You might not like this way of framing, but are you more attracted to the claims made about the world, or the person making the claims and their reasons for doing so? It’s not a clear line to draw really. Again with cathy obrien theres something about her personality and her performance that is magnetic, I mean in some sense by explaining her traumatic past she does everything she can to make you distrust anything she might say, whilst speaking with complete conviction about these fantastical events. Then there’s curious things about the medium she’s using, these formal conventions in a town hall, the home video network, all these particularly American formats that make their way into the expression of the experience. I think I get more disturbed and curious about those kind of things than the grand claims which are too big to think about. I’ll have to mull it over
luka
Well-known member
The claims made, if you present it like that.
I'm interested in the whole ecology. How myths develop cross fertilise mutate. Form a coherent Alternative universe with some degree of consistency. Like the Marvel universe. Have virtually no interest in those people who have successfully built careers out of it.
I'm interested in the whole ecology. How myths develop cross fertilise mutate. Form a coherent Alternative universe with some degree of consistency. Like the Marvel universe. Have virtually no interest in those people who have successfully built careers out of it.
pattycakes_
Can turn naughty
@kumar, thanks.
First of all, tea, none of what's been said in this thread has changed my feelings towards you. As I said before, I respect your right to your opinion. Some of which I feel the need to put up a contrary opinion against because, well, that's just how it goes on bbs' and it would be boring if we all agreed and we would have to change the site name. You're a solid dude and also one of the low key funniest people on here. But because of where we're both at, we're bound to get into it if we open up the worm can. It never gets anywhere because we're too attached to our views and therefore tend to filter what the other one says into our projection of them and ignore points that might actually be an overlap in our venn diagram. Personally I don't believe science and mysticism are mutuly exclusive and you said something similar further back in the thread. Where your pov expresses itself with rational, grounded and sensical explanations. Mine can be more subjective and open to interpretation. It doesn't rely on sense as much as imagination. So yeah that leaves me open to all kinds of swaying in the wrong direction, but please believe me that I am in no way enamoured with either Icke or Jones. But, I would never write them off as abhorrent individuals who would be better erased from society. I just don't work like that. I like to try to have compassion for people and understand how they came to be who they are and see the good in them whenever possible. But having said that, I barely spent any time digging into either guy at all anyway. Ultimately I think they're an inevitable symptom of our times and there is a big market for those kinds of people. It's just a shame that it tends to be only the extremists from that camp who ever get the air time that could be given to much more grounded and rational people. I'd say Chris Hedges, John Pilger and people like that with plenty of in the field experience would be much more healthy figureheads for a truther movement, but I just don't see that happening because they don't have the same type of charisma that sells the way Jones and Icke do. There is one guy, a comedian, Jimmy Dore who has a podcast and appears on stuff like the Joe Rogan podcast who is pretty good at getting irate and keeping it funny. And in fact I think that's the key to dealing with these issues, is to have a sense of humour about it to make your ranting palatable, which I of course lack. But yeah. Anyway no hard feelings.
P.S. 9/11 was an inside job.
First of all, tea, none of what's been said in this thread has changed my feelings towards you. As I said before, I respect your right to your opinion. Some of which I feel the need to put up a contrary opinion against because, well, that's just how it goes on bbs' and it would be boring if we all agreed and we would have to change the site name. You're a solid dude and also one of the low key funniest people on here. But because of where we're both at, we're bound to get into it if we open up the worm can. It never gets anywhere because we're too attached to our views and therefore tend to filter what the other one says into our projection of them and ignore points that might actually be an overlap in our venn diagram. Personally I don't believe science and mysticism are mutuly exclusive and you said something similar further back in the thread. Where your pov expresses itself with rational, grounded and sensical explanations. Mine can be more subjective and open to interpretation. It doesn't rely on sense as much as imagination. So yeah that leaves me open to all kinds of swaying in the wrong direction, but please believe me that I am in no way enamoured with either Icke or Jones. But, I would never write them off as abhorrent individuals who would be better erased from society. I just don't work like that. I like to try to have compassion for people and understand how they came to be who they are and see the good in them whenever possible. But having said that, I barely spent any time digging into either guy at all anyway. Ultimately I think they're an inevitable symptom of our times and there is a big market for those kinds of people. It's just a shame that it tends to be only the extremists from that camp who ever get the air time that could be given to much more grounded and rational people. I'd say Chris Hedges, John Pilger and people like that with plenty of in the field experience would be much more healthy figureheads for a truther movement, but I just don't see that happening because they don't have the same type of charisma that sells the way Jones and Icke do. There is one guy, a comedian, Jimmy Dore who has a podcast and appears on stuff like the Joe Rogan podcast who is pretty good at getting irate and keeping it funny. And in fact I think that's the key to dealing with these issues, is to have a sense of humour about it to make your ranting palatable, which I of course lack. But yeah. Anyway no hard feelings.
P.S. 9/11 was an inside job.
luka
Well-known member
But, having said that, one of the fascinating things about this stuff is that these ideas become common property, riffed on, developed, made to fit in with other dark dreamings.
shiels
_
Admittedly I haven't read the whole thread, apologies. Are you the resident shaman?
luka
Well-known member
Yeah
I like it when it does happen with fiction. The way Slender Man was created, Lovecraft, Iain Sinclair's thing...
“I mean that certain fictions, chiefly Conan Doyle, Stevenson, but many others also, laid out a template that was more powerful than any local documentary account - the presences that they created, or "figures" if you prefer it, like Rabbi Loew's Golem, became too much and too fast to be contained within the conventional limits of that fiction. They got out into the stream of time, the ether; they escaped into the labyrinth. They achieved an independent existence. The writers were mediums; they articulated, they gave a shape to some pattern of energy that was already present. They got in on the curve of time, so that by writing, by holding off the inhibiting reflex of the rational mind, they were able to propose a text that was prophetic.”
The thing with Alex Jones is he doesn't pull all the stuff out of thin air. There's often a grain of truth he can direct people to which either convinces them not to dismiss the rest or at least wrong-foots them. He was on Joe Rogan a while ago going on about babies being aborted after they're born in some US state and that the governor did an interview about making the baby comfortable if it's deformed or whatever and then taking it away and harvesting its organs. He then had them pull up a radio interview where the governor said word for word what he'd just said, but then he's tacked on this whole organ harvesting thing which obviously wasn't mentioned, so you'd get people in the comments, Rogan himself etc being like "holy shit" based on the first bit.
pattycakes_
Can turn naughty
Exactly. He's made things so difficult for himself by playing up to his role. Apparently he's stopped drinking now. Wonder if he'll calm down