crackerjack
Well-known member
Obviously I can't agree with that but I do share your liking for the Little Pea. He can score Utd's consolation goal in a 4-1 humiliation.
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Obviously I can't agree with that but I do share your liking for the Little Pea. He can score Utd's consolation goal in a 4-1 humiliation.
baboon2004
Darned cockwombles.
Let's not forget that Messi is a diver when it suits him too. Brilliance shouldn't hide that.
But agreed re Barcelona in general. Doesnt' excuse Mourinho's reaction for me tho, when his team is brim-full of exactly the same kind of player!
baboon2004
Darned cockwombles.
The guy's a legend, most likeable United player since Solksjaer (and obv the same type of player in a way). Still look back tot hat goal he scored at the WC when Mexico lost to Argentina...magic.
baboon2004
Darned cockwombles.
"Barca are cheats. Iniesta is a cheat and Spain are cheats.
Look at the last 15 minutes of the World Cup final and deny that Spain won that game through cheating and gamesmanship.
Barca are like a billionaire who cannot stop himself from going shoplifting."
I love that last line, very well put.
i think Barcelona lost their place in the scheme of great teams last night - up to them to get it back. Messi's place in the pantheon is, of course, assured.
Look at the last 15 minutes of the World Cup final and deny that Spain won that game through cheating and gamesmanship.
Barca are like a billionaire who cannot stop himself from going shoplifting."
I love that last line, very well put.
i think Barcelona lost their place in the scheme of great teams last night - up to them to get it back. Messi's place in the pantheon is, of course, assured.
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IdleRich
IdleRich
I wonder how long he will stay at Madrid for - the idea is surely for them to win and win in style. OK, you can set up in that way at home and people will just about forgive you if you win but if you lose then what have you got left?
Maybe would have worked to get a draw without the sending off cos Barce had basically created nothing up to then. But shouldn't Real Madrid be aiming higher than stopping Barce scoring and either snatching one from a set piece or winning the tie on penalties? On the other hand, you could say that neither goal came from the lack of players, in each goal there was only one attacking player in the box and enough defenders to deal with him, they just didn't.
I dunno, he went high with the studs showing and hit in the side of the leg. I think it was more over excitement than anything else but it was a bad challenge. Probably a yellow would have been better but you see them given as red from time to time.
baboon2004
Darned cockwombles.
Agreed with the first bit of that - Mourinho is playing with fire at Madrid, cos his whole reputation there is predicated upon winning (nearly) everything, but he's competing at every turn with a supremely gifted Barca team. It almost seems like a bad decision to go to Spain now - I've a feeling we're not in Milan any more, Toto...
As to Pepe, yeah in a normal game he'd def have been flirting with a red card, but given how much shit went unpunished in that game, he was dead unlucky in the context. it was by no means the worst challenge in that game, not by a long way. But the extent of Jose's complaint is ridiculous, cos his team (from what I saw) didnt' look to create anything, so they would prob have lost 11v11 anyway. okay, maybe only 1-0, but Messi would prob still have scored.
As to Pepe, yeah in a normal game he'd def have been flirting with a red card, but given how much shit went unpunished in that game, he was dead unlucky in the context. it was by no means the worst challenge in that game, not by a long way. But the extent of Jose's complaint is ridiculous, cos his team (from what I saw) didnt' look to create anything, so they would prob have lost 11v11 anyway. okay, maybe only 1-0, but Messi would prob still have scored.
crackerjack
Well-known member
Exactly. The commentary was coloured by what had gone before, so they automatically assumed he was faking the whole thing, not just the injury (which Alves clearly did exaggerate).
In a run-of-the-mill Prem game that would've been a 50-50 red, maybe 70-30 yellow, but there were far, far more exaggerated dives than that (many of them by Real).
And Adebayor was very lucky to stay on.
edit: as was that fella who stamped on Pedro.
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Agree with this, as soon as i saw the challenge the first thing i thought was there was a chance it could of actually done him some serious damage. Going in hard with studs up off the ground, even if you make little contact is asking for trouble really isn't it.
baboon2004
Darned cockwombles.
bandshell
Grand High Witch
I doubt Fergie would dare say that.
Barcelona are a fantastic team. There's no need for the diving. I could understand it with a weaker team, but when you're the best in the world you don't need to cheat.
Madrid are just as dirty.
Probably worth noting that Real can't actually achieve as many points this season now as they did in the last one with Pellegrini.
With Pepe's red there might have possibly been an element of the ref trying to stamp his authority on the game. I think it just about deserved a red, but the ref might have wanted to try and calm things down before something serious did happen.
All the red cards Real have been getting against Barca in recent history certainly aren't some kind of conspiracy though. Albiol deserved to be sent off for instance and in the final Di Maria put in a stupid and needless challenge that gave the ref no option but to give him a second yellow.
Home advantage (or lack of) is still a significant thing in your own country (just look at the stats for domestic leagues), but granted it might be a bit less than when it's a foreign country, although I haven't seen any stats for that.
I think I might also be fairly unique in being able to see past players diving, rightly or wrongly. I'm more bothered about their technique, vision, movement, etc. so I'll still rate the likes of Alves and Busquets.
Also, with regards to the diving I don't think all of Mourinho's pre-match comments help. It puts a lot of pressure on the ref and just incentivises players to play on that or try to negate it. Obviously diving can still happen without those comments, but I'm fairly sure it exacerbates it.
I also wouldn't say diving and feigning injury is that bad in Spain, even if it's better in the prem.
I think the other thing to consider is this: if you were a player and you've been fouled, would you rather go to ground and possibly grab your shin/face/other body part to emphasise that or stay on your feet/not grab your shin etc. and risk not having the foul given? With the Pepe red card, it definitely was a foul and a serious one, so was Alves wrong to draw attention to that fact, or am I just trying to defend the indefensible?*
*Obviously I'm not condoning blatant dives, this is about when fouls have actually occurred.
Also, with regards to the diving I don't think all of Mourinho's pre-match comments help. It puts a lot of pressure on the ref and just incentivises players to play on that or try to negate it. Obviously diving can still happen without those comments, but I'm fairly sure it exacerbates it.
I also wouldn't say diving and feigning injury is that bad in Spain, even if it's better in the prem.
I think the other thing to consider is this: if you were a player and you've been fouled, would you rather go to ground and possibly grab your shin/face/other body part to emphasise that or stay on your feet/not grab your shin etc. and risk not having the foul given? With the Pepe red card, it definitely was a foul and a serious one, so was Alves wrong to draw attention to that fact, or am I just trying to defend the indefensible?*
*Obviously I'm not condoning blatant dives, this is about when fouls have actually occurred.
crackerjack
Well-known member
That's another thing that was so grating about JM's post-match petulance yesterday. Two down on first leg and he's already publically throwing in the towel, just to lend weight to his anti-Barca conpiracising. Man up ffs.
IdleRich
IdleRich
It's a significant thing I'm sure but in the general course of things (ie La Liga) it wouldn't be unheard of for Real to beat Barcelona by two goals in Catalonia (I assume, I haven't checked this), however it is virtually unheard for a team that loses the first leg of a champions league semi at home to go through. I guess I'm just saying that if there was a way for Real to think of it in the first sense rather than the latter they would have a better chance. Also, this is not an option for Schalke. I'm thinking basically that I'd see Real overcoming Barce as a lesser shock than if Schalke were able to overturn their disadvantage - although that's possibly because (except in terms of possession interestingly enough) the Man Utd/Schalke game was far more one-sided.
baboon2004
Darned cockwombles.
I know what you mean, but that's a hideous phrase.
He's not gonna resurrect it tho. What did the Schalke coach say after the 0-2?
baboon2004
Darned cockwombles.
Agreed re the different dynamic with teams in the same country. it's a local derby, and seondarily a European game. But short of Herculean effort (ahem), ain't gonna happen.
I'm like a beaten husband/wife wrt barca. Don't know what I think of them any more.
in the last ten years they've only won twice at camp nou, both times by one goal
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Clásico