Worth dying for

[Gavin]

I had my humanities classes read an excerpt from Antigone, and we went through the standard discussion of the relation of state/law to ethics/morality. To my surprise, many of my students interpreted Antigone as a "drama queen" who just wanted attention (I think it was due to the part where Antigone tells Ismene not to keep her transgression a secret, or maybe they think burying your brother isn't that big a deal). I guess this kind of pop psychologizing is pretty commonplace, but it still struck me: how could the concept of dying for your beliefs get conflated with being an attention whore? I almost asked them if they had any beliefs they would die for, but I didn't. Got me thinking though:

Do you? Would you? Could you? Which ones? Myself I am not sure -- I have no discipline. And apparently people would think I just wanted attention anyway.

 

[zhao]

if i wasn't a complete coward and had real balls, if i wasn't so trapped in the capitalist comfort zone (even as i criticize it), i would be a "73rrori5t" / 5uicid3 8om8er. but i would plan very well, hit a GOOD target (no civilians), and take out as many of the people that desperately need to be taken out as possible.

difficult to name one specific cause i would die for, because there are many, and they all kind of blend together in a way...

i'm an artist at heart. a lover not a fighter... but there is a lot in this world that i hate. and think/feel needs to be destroyed. I'm not going to actively seek this path but honestly, if it came down to it, if i find myself in that situation, if fate delivered me to that place where everything hangs on this one moment, i can do it. without much hessitation either.

 

[swears]

if i wasn't a complete coward and had real balls, if i wasn't so trapped in the capitalist comfort zone (even as i criticize it), i would be a "terrorist" / suicide bomber. but i would plan very well, hit a GOOD target (no civilians), and take out as many of the people that desperately need to be taken out as possible.


What good would this really do though? Wouldn't actions like this simply lead to victimisation by the state and demonisation in the media against whatever cause you had died for?

A friend of mine said he wanted to shoot Blair, my opinion was that some kind of Watergate style expose that ended up with him behind bars and totally discredited would be preferable, rather than having him mourned as a martyr.

 

[secretagentgel]

if by giving my life i could make a whole lotta people better, safer, happier, healthier, i would. but where i would draw that line? dunno.

 

[nomadologist]

The more I read some of the threads in the Politics section of Dissensus, the more willing I think I am to die in any form of protest against American imperialism.

 

[Dusty]

I think I'm too much of a coward to actually stand up and defend to the death any of my beliefs. What do I feel strongly about? Disgust at organised religion perhaps? I think thats the only thing that really stirs me.

Would I go to the grave standing against it? Depends how painful the death would be, I'm sure I'd crack at the slightest hint of physical abuse.

I'd die for loved ones, but that doesn't really count - hardly a belief.

 

[Mr. Tea]

Re.: the terrorism/suicide bombing thing - wouldn't it be far better, if you wanted to strike fast and hard at the heart of some hated enemy, to organise some kind of attack that didn't involve your own death? For one thing, even if you disregard the fact that it doesn't involve your own death, it means you can do it again, and again, making it a much better strategy in the attainment of your overall goal.

Of course, a suicide attack has the advantage that you're not arround to witness the aftermath and suffer any possible guilt/remorse-related consequences.

 

[nomadologist]

if i wasn't a complete coward and had real balls, if i wasn't so trapped in the capitalist comfort zone (even as i criticize it), i would be a "terrorist" / suicide bomber. but i would plan very well, hit a GOOD target (no civilians), and take out as many of the people that desperately need to be taken out as possible.


What good would this really do though? Wouldn't actions like this simply lead to victimisation by the state and demonisation in the media against whatever cause you had died for?

A friend of mine said he wanted to shoot Blair, my opinion was that some kind of Watergate style expose that ended up with him behind bars and totally discredited would be preferable, rather than having him mourned as a martyr.

Hmm. Does anything do any "good" in this sense? Political action often demands that acts be carried out for their (for lack of a better word) 'symbolic' value.

 

[Gavin]

"My position is that I only get one death, I want it to be a good one. Wouldn't it be better to stand for something or make a statement, rather than a fiery collision with some drunk driver? Are not smokers choosing death by lung cancer? Where is the dignity there? Are not the people who disregard the environment killing themselves and future generations?" In his self-penned obituary he confessed to feeling guilty for not killing Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld when he had the chance.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malachi_Ritscher

 

[Gavin]

Between Zhao wanting to be a terrorist, swears mentioning shooting Tony Blair, and my previous post referring to assassinating Rumsfeld, we have to be on all sorts of government watchlists now... maybe this was a bad idea. Mods do what ye see fit.

 

[nomadologist]

Yup, the computers/programs that search for these things aren't very good at nuance. It might do well to erase this.

 

[Mr. Tea]

Yeah, because the CIA/MI6 have nothing better to do than monitor an online forum consisting mainly of thousand-word essays on dubstep...

 

[nomadologist]

my parents got on the FBI list because some damn church that was affiliated with the KKK got their address from somewhere. a rep called them and TOLD THEM.

it's all automated now stupid--they run random searches on the entire internet ffs

 

[Mr. Tea]

my parents got on the FBI list because some damn church that was affiliated with the KKK got their address from somewhere. a rep called them and TOLD THEM.

it's all automated now stupid--they run random searches on the entire internet ffs

The "entire internet" is quite big. My point is, I sincerely doubt the various security agencies of the USA or any other country have either the resources or inclination to follow up any and every Internet discussion by a bunch of armchair anarchists.

Also, I'd have thought the FBI had your family on a list because they were basically the Mob? (At least, that seems to be the impression you want to put across.)

 

[mistersloane]

A friend of mine once said 'No more sacrifices' and I was impresssed.

 

[nomadologist]

The "entire internet" is quite big. My point is, I sincerely doubt the various security agencies of the USA or any other country have either the resources or inclination to follow up any and every Internet discussion by a bunch of armchair anarchists.

Also, I'd have thought the FBI had your family on a list because they were basically the Mob? (At least, that seems to be the impression you want to put across.)

The "entire internet" is easily searchable by machines, and key words (such as "terrorism" and "kill ____ politician") are tagged. Viva la Patriot Act. I'm not saying there's someone combing through it all, but do we need to get Dissensus tagged? I mean really.

And sure, the FBI knows about my mom and her family from way back (we brought the fucking Gambinos to power), but this was a separate incident. When her name got put on this KKK church's list (my mom ordered a Bible for someone from a sketchy catalogue, I think), just to be nice and let them know not to further affiliate with these people, a rep called and told them that it got them on the white supremacist list.

I was talking before about the CIA, not the FBI. Different entities.

 

[zhao]

Yeah, because the CIA/MI6 have nothing better to do than monitor an online forum consisting mainly of thousand-word essays on dubstep...

and against dubstep

A friend of mine once said 'No more sacrifices' and I was impresssed.

in what context was this statement made?

Re.: the 73rrori5m/5uicid3 8om8ing thing - wouldn't it be far better, if you wanted to strike fast and hard at the heart of some hated enemy, to organise some kind of attack that didn't involve your own death? For one thing, even if you disregard the fact that it doesn't involve your own death, it means you can do it again, and again, making it a much better strategy in the attainment of your overall goal.

of course you are right. but to take out certain key players in certain key locations, especially where they are assembled, would almost certainly mean a situation not possible to escape from... but this is pointless, I'm not going to do anything close to that. maybe a few protests but mostly shouting millitant slogans on the internet

 

[zhao]

everyone just code the key words in your posts like i have done (first reply). better safe than sorry.

 

[mistersloane]

in what context was this statement made?

me talking about Jesus and similar stupid fucking wheat gods. I like it as a slogan.

 

[zhao]

me talking about Jesus and similar stupid fucking wheat gods. I like it as a slogan.

yet we live in a time when sacrifices on a big scale should be made as soon as possible, because they will have to be made eventually, but with different degrees of dire consequences... see "Carbon Thread".

i'm not planning on having children. that's a kind of sacrifice innit?