Pretentious Crap

[droid]

occasionally think that we're disposed to imagine in some abstract and non-conscious way that some Other is watching us at all times, precisely to overcome the sense that our actions have no purpose unless witnessed - and maybe this accounts for my lonesome pretentiousness.

Have you read The Magus?

 

[Mr. Tea]

I agree, at least intuitively, that ostentation has to come into somewhere, but I've difficulty in conceptualising it as plainly as you've done. For a start, and perhaps I'm alone in this, I sometimes find myself behaving pretentiously when there's no-one to witness it. At the time, it feels like I'm striving to satisfy the demands of my own self-image, to convince myself that the reality mirrors the fantasy. Although I'm simultaneously aware of my pretentious behaviour (and therefore never actually buying into the illusion) I persist in the act despite there being no-one to witness it. I'm not aware that the purpose is to recount the tale at some later point to another person, nor does it even feel like I'm storing the fruits of my pretentious activity (knowledge of esoteric French philosophy let's say) for a later payout. I suppose the point I'm making is that pretentiousness seems to reside in a more psychologically complex space, bound up with central aspects of how we regard ourselves on a daily basis, than your characterisation suggests.

I occasionally think that we're disposed to imagine in some abstract and non-conscious way that some Other is watching us at all times, precisely to overcome the sense that our actions have no purpose unless witnessed - and maybe this accounts for my lonesome pretentiousness.

Yeah, that sort of idea had crossed my mind - but on the other hand, perhaps you're not being pretentious at all, you're just vaguely aware that what you're doing might look pretentious to someone else, precisely because if you were doing it for someone else's 'benefit', almost as a kind of performance, then you would be being pretentious. See what I mean? It's like you're so aware of the risk of being perceived as pretentious that you worry (if that's not too strong a word) about it even when there's no-one there to perceive you, other than yourself.

 

[Mr. Tea]

I think a lot of people have been talking about hipsters in recent years because of just how easy it is now to be pretentious and get away with it. It's very possible our hypothetical constipated hookah-huffing interrlectual didn't even read that book. He could very well have just wikipedia'd the synopsis.

Hah, yeah, I guess in the past if you wanted to be able to hold forth authoritatively on Sartre or Japanese theatre or whatever you'd at least have to put in some time at the library, whereas nowadays you can become an 'expert' on just about anything from the comfort of your sitting room.

 

[Agent]

hipsters are suburban kids from Williamsburg, VA who move to New York and affect an urban-authentic posture. they are braindead.

the hookah smoking guy with IBS (i'm not sure how a chronic marijuana smoker could read 2 pages of Deleuze, or Kojeve, or Lacan, or any of the other alleged offenders) - there was a kid like this in my Popular Culture course. He knew everything there is to know about heavy metal music and rare 1970's SF films.


and role playing games like Dungeons and Dragons. he wasn't what i'd call pretentious, but he knew more than the other students, and liked to show off in class discussions.




pretentious crap:

wearing golf clothes to a bar or club
saying you are a lawyer, or attending law school
popping your collar
being white, over-educated, "hip" and listening to hip hop, grime, dubstep, dance or raggae music

 

[Mr. Tea]

being white, over-educated, "hip" and listening to hip hop, grime, dubstep, dance or raggae music

zing!

 

[Agent]

it's all in good fun. really.

 

[Sick Boy]

pretentious crap:

wearing golf clothes to a bar or club
saying you are a lawyer, or attending law school
popping your collar
being white, over-educated, "hip" and listening to hip hop, grime, dubstep, dance or raggae music

Haha! This is such a spiteful list. None of those things are pretentious either.
Since I don't know what constitutes golf clothes, I could be guilty of two of these things. Like sweater vests and argyle trousers?

EDIT: Just to clarify, I do not wear sweater vests and argyle trousers to bars.

 

[Agent]

the list isn't spiteful at all. if anything thsoe are old cliches for the narcissistic, feathered-haired prep or bourgeois. forget it.

this thread is a disaster. all the nitpicking about self-reflexive pretension is very circular.

 

[IdleRich]

"saying you are a lawyer, or attending law school"

Does this depend at all on whether you are or are not in fact a lawyer or attending law school?

"being white, over-educated, "hip" and listening to hip hop, grime, dubstep, dance or raggae music"

What about being white and listening to rock is that ok?

 

[Mr. Tea]

What if you're black, dress like someone's dad in 1978 and listen to Stockhausen? Assuming there is at least one person in the world who fits that description...

 

[Agent]

yes but that is someone i would definitely hang out with.

maybe it's all subjective, and maybe everyone, when you really analyze it objectively, is a fucking douchebag.

 

[IdleRich]

"yes but that is someone i would definitely hang out with"

Pretentious!

"maybe it's all subjective, and maybe everyone, when you really analyze it objectively, is a fucking douchebag."

Maybe you've hit the nail on the head here.

 

[Agent]

Does this depend at all on whether you are or are not in fact a lawyer or attending law school?


What about being white and listening to rock is that ok?

it's worse if you go to law school and have the money to pull off the image.

it depends what kind of rock i guess. race doesn't matter. i hate when i get accused of 'reverse-racism.' that is pc on a sickening level. but yeah most of the music i like is pretentious by any definition of the word, including stockhausen. independent rock and pop has to enter the conversation somewhere. like the unicorns. music professors who release experimental electronic albums.

any contemporary art that "comments on" coprophilia, scatology, or excrement.

 

[Agent]

.

Pretentious!

 

[IdleRich]

"race doesn't matter"

Why did you mention it then? Not having a go, I'm just confused here.

 

[Agent]

because i'm an American racist from the south what can i say? i think minorities need to accept their natural place in the pecking order.

 

[Agent]

I'm reading a book on the history and current state of the journalism industry and the last section talked a bit about globalization of information and that sort of thing. One point the author made was that journalists didn't only become threatened by all this citizen journalism that was pouring onto the web, but the quality of their own journalism started to falter as it became less geographically-centred, less community relevent, and more subjective and opinionated.

what book is this? isn't it arbitrary to say that journalism has deteriorated because of the Internet? you have to factor in that more people are writing and publishing, and the market is really thin.

maybe journalists would be more relevant if they started covering more local entertainments - city fairs, holiday parades, and the like

 

[Sick Boy]

what book is this? isn't it arbitrary to say that journalism has deteriorated because of the Internet? you have to factor in that more people are writing and publishing, and the market is really thin.

Oh, that's not their thesis or anything. They go on right after that to point out the obvious benefits of access to information (increased global citizenship, greater and more detailed coverage of important foreign affairs stories that otherwise could get ignored, etc.). I was just pointing out one small part as it was relevant to this thread.

The general aim of the book seems to be trying to figure out a way to keep the shrinking industry afloat while retaining ideas of integrity and responsibility to the citizen that seperates and defines professional journalism from other sources of information.

It's not that bad: Amazon product ASIN 0609806912
Anyway, not to derail...

 

[zhao]

EDIT: Just to clarify, I do not wear sweater vests and argyle trousers to bars.

oh i've done this countless times. last was at this "upscale" (rare in this town) jazz club. worked a treat too: this group of posh english art girls were so receptive... oh the fun.

What if you're black, dress like someone's dad in 1978 and listen to Stockhausen? Assuming there is at least one person in the world who fits that description...

UM. HELLO?!?!

 

[zhao]

no really...