Where to now?

[polystyle]

Cheers Canada, would like to visit more.
Would still prefer eating Portuguese in Lisbon or Porto.
Old Europe vibes, native's soft tone and easy way, inspiring views,
fresh breezes on the river, up to the Bridge and South below downtown.
Strong coffee and pastries in the AM.
People hanging out in pocket parks above the Tagus /Tejo , rastas , college kids, lovers, dealers.
Cosmo eateries up and down the hills.
The old city is also special, closed in walls open into a tiny square in afternoon sun,
couples and locals having drinks in hot sun, little felines marked like cheetahs.
In some places a feeling of old and comfortable, if that strikes one as being a good thing.
Fado ..
The ocean not far.
The beaches south of Lisbon.
Arriving in Porto over the train bridge ...
Port wine.

 

[zhao]

yes y'all are right. i was indeed thinking of toronto.

and Peruvian food is one of my all time favorite cousines. certainly massively influencd by chinese flavors, but with that latin thing going on too. and i've still yet to track down Chinese Columbian Cumbias...


what ive heard of Lisbon is all the above, very beautiful, and also with a haunted vibe... grand old architecture now in various states of decay, a sleepy depressive town with a sense of sadness and loss in stark contrast with past glories of the empire. i need to go soon. sounds like the perfect place to write a book or compose a symphony...

Fado ..

and as someone mentioned a good, probably small where everyone knows eachother, experimental music scene. here is a list:

Postby AKA_Idiot on Fri Apr 06, 2007 8:01 pm
Here are some links of cool thing happening in Portugal:

Loosers - one of my favourite bands in Portugal. They play Sunburned/NNCK jams, maybe some Gang Gang Dance. They'll release this ear a thing in Eclipse - http://www.myspace.com/loosersarefree
Frango - free/space rock trio. Gorgeous! - http://www.myspace.com/frangofrango
Fish&Sheep - wild free rock duo (drum+guitar), in the vein of Fushitsusha - http://www.myspace.com/fishsheep
Lobster - Lightning Bolt/Hella/hardcore duo. I love them http://www.myspace.com/wearelobsters
CAVEIRA - Imagine Comets on Fire or Hawkwind with a noise edge and all improv attack - http://www.myspace.com/caveiracaveira
One Might Add - kraut/electronics - http://www.myspace.com/1mightadd
Tropa Macaca - noise/mechanical duo - http://www.myspace.com/tropamacaca
Calhau! - another duo with some ressemblances to Tropa, but less mechanic, more organic - http://www.myspace.com/calhau
Norberto Lobo - this young guy mixes John Fahey fingerpicking with Carlos Paredes, our greatest guitar player ever (Portuguese guitar). He's a super talented musician.
PCF Moya - Loren Connors/experimental guitar solo (guy from Frango). Lovely - http://www.myspace.com/pcfmoya
Gala Drop - http://www.myspace.com/galadrop
Rafael Toral - he's one of the greatest musicians in Portugal. He did beautiful ambient albums but now he does jazz in electronics, which is a totally radical thing - http://www.myspace.com/rafaeltoral
Soopa - jazz/dirty electronics/noise collective - http://www.myspace.com/soopaserver
Osso - experimental noise/drone/black metal - http://www.myspace.com/ossoosso
Manuel Mota - Guitar solo in the vein of Derek Bailey - http://www.myspace.com/manuelmota
Curia - http://www.myspace.com/curiapalace
Josué O Salvador - Acid Mothers Temple kinda destroyed hard rock - http://www.myspace.com/josueosalvador
Sapien Sapiens - tribal/freakout/percussive - http://www.myspace.com/sapiensapiens
Ruby Red label - http://www.myspace.com/rubyrededitora
Searching Records - http://www.myspace.com/searchingrecords
Lovers&Lollypops label - http://www.myspace.com/loversandlollypops

and this is a lovely little album which is very difficult to find...

Tsuki - i wish that mountain could have an eye

 

[polystyle]

You got it Zhao !
There was another thread here that got into some similar questions about places to go ,
and as often the case on Dissensus there was probably useful info too.

Lisbon's Kuduro nights , Afro nights and food.
We were brought to a street side hole in the wall seafood place that opens for lunch for the workers in the area, Galician chef, sweet blonde Ukrainian waitresses and we left stuffed with fresh fish and beer. Couldn't find it the next day.
Palaces, medieval walled villages.
Warm, friendly people and inexpensive to explore.
And there IS sometimes a drifty , sad vibe in places there.
Can get by on some broken English , but like anywhere you go got to know at least some words in native Portuguese.
I hear the masculine /macho stuff doesn't dominate as much as in say, Spain.

In her original post Kate seems to be looking for a place to go to live cheap enough and do some interesting, productive, creative be it music or as Zhao said writing a book or some werk , obv some places feel like that and others don't.

For those things one would think also Barcelona is happening as well ,
some different things there ( Gaudi ! )

Could do things in Antwerp as well probably; small, easy to get around , cultures, style
and mix of people.

Koln ...
Shanghai ...
Sydney ... ?
Bangkok - A couple we know, Japanese gadget finders Compact Impact ,
recently left NYC to go to Bangkok; cheap still, mix of people , access to inner Asia.
Got to be ready for the summer humidity in Asia though !
Nagasaki ...
Kyushu -South end of Japan. Old friend x - Cibo Matto / Blonde Redhead bassist toured, played Central Park - and then lit out for the islands to make soap sold by web.

Under the above of course also Paris, NYC but we know how expensive they are by now.
Though obviously there are cheap enough places just about anywhere is one has some connections, knows the ground.
I find these still good, along with Tokyo because there is such a terrific flow of people
in and out daily, weekly.
Keeps things fresh.

 

[Sick Boy]

Since a lot of attention has been given to food in Montreal, I feel it necessary to mention that with the exception of Montreal-specific food like poutine or bagels, Toronto has much, much better (and cheaper) food.

Mediterranean, Italian, Chinese, Vietnamese, Korean, Japanese, Jamaican, Ethiopian, Portugese, Steak Houses, Indian, Greek, Thai, French, Seafood - you name it, and we got it in droves.

 

[scottdisco]

T.O. most ethnically diverse city on earth, no, Sickboy?
big up.

to second a specific Polystyle mentioned: Antwerp, lovely city.

fairly small place in world terms, manageable i guess you could say, you can be in Germany, the rest of Belgium (fine, tough uplands toward Luxembourg), the Netherlands or France quick-like and - as Kate also directed - for native English speakers, you can get by with not much language skills.

all the things being sought after, into the bargain.

Lisbon-style, i guess Amadora has good tunes?

 

[baboon2004]

T.O. most ethnically diverse city on earth, no, Sickboy?
big up.

It's one of Toronto, Newham or Haringey....

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

People talk up Philly in the USA...

two US places mentioned i do know: Philly is great, a big, amazing city.

there's a lot of desperately sad poverty, grinding on the west side once you get past around, ooh, 50th or so i'd say. (i know big US cities do have these awful structural inequalities, i'm just saying like.)

I lived in fairly deep West Philly for ~2 yrs, both places in the low 60s, once off Baltimore Ave & the other off Lancaster. There is indeed severe poverty, some pretty rough spots - nothing that bothered me tho not that kind of thing that would appeal to people with kids...tho there are also some pockets that are if not affluent then at least solidly middle-class. In general tho the point about the extreme inequalities in many American cities is true...I dunno tho I don't think West Philly's even that bad, certainly not as rough as parts of North Philly...

there is certainly a big music/arts/politics scene - there's a boho fringe in the upper 40s-low 50s where the student ghetto runs up agains native (overwhelmingly black) West Philly - town vs. gown relation are pretty atrocious, Penn & Drexel also have a very nasty history of forcing black ppl out of their homes to grab real estate. anyway loads of punk/activist houses, a really good co-op. as you might expect gentrification is quite a prevalent issue.

lots of cheap food; Ethiopian, soul food, also a lot of halal stuff (there are a ton of Muslims in West Philly, mostly black Americans) as well as the usual cheap Indian/SE Asian stuff you'd expect near any campus & dozens of generic Chinese takeaways - all the vegans used to go this place called Choy Wong's for $3 gravy tofu...

Real estate is very cheap - almost as cheap as Detroit (other cheap spots in the U.S. - St. Louis, Pittsburgh, really any town that was based on heavy industry that is no longer there) - I knew some ppl who lived in a house called the $10 House cause that's the amount they bought it for at a sherriff's auction - tho mind they then had to put about 40k & countless work-hours into repairing it but still - I mean a big 3-story Victorian here. I dunno about serious employment - I was, ah, spottily employed back then - drug studies/some construction/some, uh, less official things...oh & I was squatting, Philly being one of the only big cities in the States where that's feasible, whole blocks of abandoned rowhouses in spots...

I nominate Montreal, though I live in Toronto.

I second Montreal tho I've only ever visited. tho as ppl have mentioned I gather that finding work there is a pain in the arse - tho don't you Canadians still have the dole? guess that wouldn't apply to foreigners - the only American I knew living there was a bike courier for a weed dealer, under table of course...

& truly no offense Sick Boy but Toronto always kind of struck me like New York Lite - only been there twice tho I guess - & New York Lite ain't so bad either...

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

Someone told me that Oregon in the States is worth checking out.

just keep in mind that coastal Oregon & the rest of Oregon are two wildly different things - Portland is as mentioned like lefty yuppie central...fantastic quality of life tho indeed. Eugene is alright too, a college town, rather left as well, kind of like Berkeley without Oakland attached. Eastern Oregon on the other hand is a lot more like Idaho...nothing wrong with that of course...just a wholly different thing...

some of the Ohio cities?

Albany, NY i have heard conflicting reports about, some say too quiet for their liking, but there is a college presence (right?), so, i mean, well, i know other folk that dig it lots.

Ohio - I mean Cleveland, it's alright, kind of like a 2nd-rate Pittsburgh. Athens is a big college town, never been to Columbus. Never been to Cincy but it seems like an interesting place, almost-but-not-quite a Southern town. Never been to Dayton or Akron either but have met ppl from both places who were quite unethusiastic about their hometowns.

I was in Albany a few months ago - was travelling with a friend & had a couple days to kill while she went to the wedding of a family friend - I was surprised by how nice it seemed, actually kinda reminded me of that boho fringe part of West Philly, pretty well racially mixed...lots of neat ultra-heavy Gothic architecture as well...

 

[Sick Boy]

& truly no offense Sick Boy but Toronto always kind of struck me like New York Lite - only been there twice tho I guess - & New York Lite ain't so bad either...

This is the worst part about Toronto, other than the attitude of Torontonians. If you're standing in Dundas Square, then yes, it looks remarkably like New York Lite. Some parts of the downtown core don't have much character, although the Torontonians who complain about this most are the same ones who you'll find never leaving the downtown core for anything.

I used to be one of those people. Having expanded my scope of the city a little bit recently, and extricating myself from the downtown art/music "scene" a bit more, I realize that it is too easy to make that criticism of Toronto when you're essentially standing in the kiddie pool.

In fact, having been to New York a few times, in certain respects Toronto being a "lite" version of New York definitely has its perks. For one, it's safer, cleaner, cheaper and a lot more laid back. Oh yeah, and it's in Canada.

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

In fact, having been to New York a few times, in certain respects Toronto being a "lite" version of New York definitely has its perks. For one, it's safer, cleaner, cheaper and a lot more laid back. Oh yeah, and it's in Canada.

oh surely. I was going to mention that but I figured "Lite" also meant liter on crime, grit, poverty, etc. in fact New York Lite is kind of a compliment, if perhaps a somewhat backhanded one. & as I said, no offense man...& of course quality of life jumps vastly just by being in Canada, it's true...

also I quite enjoyed Toronto both times I was there...once you get off, what is it, Yonge Street or King Street, it definitely gets more interesting...

I have a pretty good friend who lived in Ottawa for awhile. he wasn't a big fan, but he was also Quebecois (from Hull actually) so I dunno...

 

[Sick Boy]

I have a pretty good friend who lived in Ottawa for awhile. he wasn't a big fan, but he was also Quebecois (from Hull actually) so I dunno...

Isn't Hull where people in Ottawa go to party? Paul will know this one, he lives in Ottawa.

 

[zhao]

wait a second is the implication of the original post/question that Berlin is on it's way out? not true! more people seems to be moving here than ever...

give me all your misfits, outcasts and alienated intellectuals with weird taste in music

and i'll show you ample alternative art spaces, bars that never close, and police that won't bug you for smoking weed

 

[petergunn]

Since a lot of attention has been given to food in Montreal, I feel it necessary to mention that with the exception of Montreal-specific food like poutine or bagels, Toronto has much, much better (and cheaper) food.

Mediterranean, Italian, Chinese, Vietnamese, Korean, Japanese, Jamaican, Ethiopian, Portugese, Steak Houses, Indian, Greek, Thai, French, Seafood - you name it, and we got it in droves.

i've only been to toronto once (for a week), but i would say they are about equal for food...

montreal probably has toronto beat for breakfast, but besides that i have to say you are right, TO has a shitload of great ethnic food...

and yes, sickboy, I remember when you were on here badmouthing toronto as waspy and boring, but i have to say i like it alot, but find it NOTHING like nyc at all... i mean, just b/c there is big buildings doesn't make it like NYC.... toronto to me is very quaint and nice (and i am not being condescending)... i mean, fucking bicyclists all stop at every red light there... even if no one is coming at all the other way... you have trolleys everywhere and have to buy beer at a special store... it's big, but has no grittiness to it... if one requires that from cities, so be it, but i liked it there...

 

[Kate Mossad]

Thanks for all the info. everyone and thanks to Zhao for the links. Think I will seriously investigate Portugal.

 

[polystyle]

One of the Lisbon links Zaho references -
Gala Drop about halfway into the list he posted above - we can vouch for,
he booked our group to play Lisbon and Porto, took us around town, good guy well into 'kraut', prog avant, experimental musics.
Wouldn't have gotten there without him !

Best on your search Kate ...

 

[Sick Boy]

and yes, sickboy, I remember when you were on here badmouthing toronto as waspy and boring, but i have to say i like it alot, but find it NOTHING like nyc at all...

Yeah it's a strange thing in some ways, that comparison...

I think it has a lot to do with it being the most "americanized" of the big Canadian cities - it lacks the intensely regional Canadian characteristics of places in the praries, east coast, quebec, etc. - and perhaps the attitude of some of the people here. It's a massive financial center like New York so there is that, and also the music scenes here stand a bit in awe of The Big Apple (we are quite close geographically) and so a lot of music scenes here are mostly imported or replicated and there is a big problem developing original, homegrown talent in the way cities like New York or London do.

On the whole, Montreal is much better for music, if that and Canada is what you're into. On the whole though, a lot of my shit talking Toronto is because I live here and so should be immediately discredited because of that. It is a nice place really, great summers.

 

[Leo]

Thanks for all the info. everyone and thanks to Zhao for the links. Think I will seriously investigate Portugal.

since i was the first to suggest lisbon, i feel obligated to make a clarification: it doesn't have the seemingly high ratio of music hipsters as berlin, and might not be cheaper than berlin...but it does have a lot going for it.

enjoy.