House 09!

[mms]

"don't like"? "dismissive"?

where are you getting this shit from? certainly not from anything i said.

i am talking about the continuity of this music, and have not dismissed anything.

are you being willfully obtuse or are you actually stupid?

here is one of your patronising retorts from earlier

it is still simply in service of that body jacking groove, which is the heart and soul of the music.

you can strip it down as much as is possible; you can pile as much stuff on it as you want; you can dress it in alien robot clothes; it still got the SAME bones as Elder Charles.

because that's the blueprint of this music, its origin, and its center.

everything else came later, and are peripheral, and non-essential; whether it be acid or clicks'n'cuts or supercollider or sub bass.

do you understand?

can you explain that then?
or are you going to tell me that it's like the internet and you didn't really mean it.

 

[luka]

one of the reasons you always get into fights zhao is that you always pick one side of a false dichotomy and claim it is the only truth. this makes you look dim.
it has happened time and time again. it makes for pretty stupid arguments.
its black
no white
no black
no white.

you see this i take it?

 

[luka]

youre both right as is obvious to everyone reading, or at least i would assume so.
.

 

[zhao]

can you explain that then?

have already explained it above:

house music and later techno should not be seen as any kind of radical break from everything that had gone before -- at least not any more of a radical a break than say, the one made by Disco from Funk or Funk from Jazz -- but rather as nothing more and nothing less than simply the next link in the "continuum".

 

[mms]

yeah whatever, bored of this merry dance now, i only got into this cos you were so annoying, and it is impossible, the argument just gets reduced and reduced.

 

[hint]

so house music and later techno should not be seen as any kind of radical break from everything that had gone before -- at least not any more of a radical a break than say, the one made by Disco from Funk or Funk from Jazz

No-one on this thread has claimed otherwise.

Is this the problem? You think everyone else believes this? The same way that you think no-one else understands the importance of Gospel in the development of House?

You're chasing shadows.

 

[zhao]

it's simple, like i said earlier, just a matter of emphasis:

mms, and many others, privilege later day innovation, influence, and technology;

while i stress lineage, history, and continuity, and describe the primary genetic axis.

the difference is one of perspective and vantage point.

for me this has been not an unfruitful conversation, for if nothing else it allowed me to organize some thoughts.

NOW, hopefully, we can agree to (incrementally) disagree, and move on.

 

[dubble-u-c]

Interesting how this thread started as a discussion about house in 2009 and it has devolved into a discussion about the history of african american music and the gospel influence on house. There definitely is a gospel influence in house there is no doubt about that. Not many house heads are forgetting this influence nor do they need to be reminded of it. There are plenty of straight up gospel house songs released each year in the US which are played at house clubs and yes even churches in the US frequently.
I had a great discussion with Kenny Bobien once about God and the holy spirit and how his religious beliefs influence his music and lyrics. so anyway now... moving on...

I have been feeling some of pirahnahead's new music lately and a couple of new tracks by glenn underground have really grabbed me.

perfect blends of new production technology, funk and swing attached to a 4 on the floor rhythm.

 

[routes]

just heard the myspace clip of kyle hall's remix of aidy's girl by darkstar. what a sweet lil riddim! love the way that woodblocky thing flirts with the 4/4. that's dancing music right there!

 

[mms]

Interesting how this thread started as a discussion about house in 2009 and it has devolved into a discussion about the history of african american music and the gospel influence on house. There definitely is a gospel influence in house there is no doubt about that. Not many house heads are forgetting this influence nor do they need to be reminded of it. There are plenty of straight up gospel house songs released each year in the US which are played at house clubs and yes even churches in the US frequently.
I had a great discussion with Kenny Bobien once about God and the holy spirit and how his religious beliefs influence his music and lyrics. so anyway now... moving on...

I have been feeling some of pirahnahead's new music lately and a couple of new tracks by glenn underground have really grabbed me.

perfect blends of new production technology, funk and swing attached to a 4 on the floor rhythm.

yep course there is, no ones saying there isn't. There are also plenty of preacher-like voice of god style vocals in early house, you know that pitched down voice testifying something, or invoking something, it relates to gospel / church practices in a way, although its kinda good natured jouissance.

 

[dubble-u-c]

yep course there is, no ones saying there isn't. There are also plenty of preacher-like voice of god style vocals in early house, you know that pitched down voice testifying something, or invoking something, it relates to gospel / church practices in a way, although its kinda good natured jouissance.

Yeah - I know that is why it kind of baffling to me that there is an argument. No one here is saying there isn't. i am trying to see where the bone of contention arose

I think zhao has a particular way of making a point that rubs some people the wrong way even though what he writes contains some truth and he adds a lot of knowledge to any discussion he starts or joins.

I like you zhao - but i have to ask do you usually create an argument on purpose in order to make your points?

Oh well... Back to the music. I am also loving Yonurican - "boriken soul" l and some other bits they have done this year as well.

 

[zhao]

i have to ask do you usually create an argument on purpose in order to make your points?

the fundamental issue with me is that, as i have said before, i've got a post-colonial bone to pick. and a broad musical/political agenda to challenge what i clearly perceive as pervasive "western bias" and "modernity bias" (even as people try to deny their existence); and to move the center of the ideas and culture we are all invested in back to their rightful sources; reasserting the continuity between modern forms and their old and indeed ancient roots.

people say i am chasing shadows. i do not agree.

Yonurican

is this a new style? dyslexic house?

 

[hint]

the fundamental issue with me is that, as i have said before, i've got a post-colonial bone to pick. and a broad musical/political agenda to challenge what i clearly perceive as pervasive "western bias" and "modernity bias" (even as people try to deny their existence); and to move the center of the ideas and culture we are all invested in back to their rightful sources; reasserting the continuity between modern forms and their old and indeed ancient roots.

people say i am chasing shadows. i do not agree.

But Zhao... it's like turning up at a cake forum, joining a discussion about icing, banging on about flour and claiming that anyone who mentions vanilla essence "just doesn't get it".

You're finding disagreement where there is none.

is this a new style? dyslexic house?

Yonurican - Boriken Soul is the name of an artist / track.

 

[UFO over easy]

anyone who mentions vanilla essence "just doesn't get it".

they don't though, draw for the pods!

 

[dubble-u-c]

the fundamental issue with me is that, as i have said before, i've got a post-colonial bone to pick. and a broad musical/political agenda to challenge what i clearly perceive as pervasive "western bias" and "modernity bias" (even as people try to deny their existence); and to move the center of the ideas and culture we are all invested in back to their rightful sources; reasserting the continuity between modern forms and their old and indeed ancient roots.

people say i am chasing shadows. i do not agree.



is this a new style? dyslexic house?

lol. i know your agenda zhao and for the most part I agree with you. It's your tactics i disagree with but i suppose people do remember you and what you are trying to get across! You're a hollerboard celebrity ..

Yonurican - Boriken_soul( Dub_Mix)
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[dubble-u-c]

Yonurican - Lucha Machete (Ricardo Miranda Mix)
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value=""></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

 

[hint]

they don't though, draw for the pods!

rockist!

 

[zhao]

lol. i know your agenda zhao and for the most part I agree with you. It's your tactics i disagree with but i suppose people do remember you and what you are trying to get across! You're a hollerboard celebrity ..

haha yeah a few guys on there i REALLY rub the wrong way hahaha... pretty amazing actually. also funny are the number of secret support PMs i've gotten on there over the last 2 years (quite a few), it's like they are afraid to be openly Zhaoist.

Yonurican - Boriken_soul( Dub_Mix)[/QUOTE]

you think they intentionally did a dyslexic spelling of Nuyorica?

 

[mms]

the fundamental issue with me is that, as i have said before, i've got a post-colonial bone to pick. and a broad musical/political agenda to challenge what i clearly perceive as pervasive "western bias" and "modernity bias" (even as people try to deny their existence); and to move the center of the ideas and culture we are all invested in back to their rightful sources; reasserting the continuity between modern forms and their old and indeed ancient roots.

good god man, again and again no one has denied anything at all, thats the thing, all along everyone in this car crash of a thread has acknowledged that gospel is an important part of house over and over again, i just recognise musical development, influences + developments within society, technology, records, clubs, audience and acknowledge a futurist impulse in early house etc, rather than your idea that in summary all house / (or is it all music? not quite sure) are just 'african dances' from pre slavery/ gospel juiced up a bit, esp as these things too adapt and have adapted are rooted and infuenced by non african sources etc , and i dislike your sentiment that anyone who disagrees is stupid or racist or has a 'western bias' ??


anyway this is all so fucking irrelevant it's ridiculous.

 

[Sectionfive]

Anja Schneider,Damian Lazarus on a good day are great. I heard good things about Trevor Jackson also