there is a big difference

[empty mirror]

nah, i am more for the music that makes you dance. that is frenzy!
if the music is making you think about dancing, you are doing it wrong.

 

[zhao]

Define 'better'. What are the criteria?

"i like it more"

most everyone on here would agree on what is a boring cookie cutter music, and what is innovative, interesting, as well as exhilarating music.

most everyone on here make a distinction between the djs that you like, kode 9 and who ever else, who put thought and feeling into the selection, into the flow, into the composition, versus the djs that you don't like, who are on auto-pilot playing minimal-by-numbers, dubstep-by-numbers or whatever-by-numbers.

so don't give me this bullshit about this thread being about what DJ ZHAO likes or doesn't like.

 

[zhao]

nah, i am more for the music that makes you dance. that is frenzy!
if the music is making you think about dancing, you are doing it wrong.

you misunderstand.

 

[empty mirror]

not fair! you didn't explain until after my post.

edit: so the crux is... music that is crafted is better than music that is merely manufactured? not a controversial point i wouldn't think.

double edit: and manifestos are good, i applaud zhao. kinda lame to just post it is pretentious---doesn't add to the conversation at all.

 

[slackk]

Define 'better'. What are the criteria?

most everyone on here would agree on what is a boring cookie cutter music, and what is innovative, interesting, as well as exhilarating music.

most everyone on here make a distinction between the djs that you like, kode 9 and who ever else, who put thought and feeling into the selection, into the flow, into the composition, versus the djs that you don't like, who are on auto-pilot playing minimal-by-numbers, dubstep-by-numbers or whatever-by-numbers.

so don't give me this bullshit about this thread being about what DJ ZHAO likes or doesn't like.

Of course everyone can tell the difference, but your initial "definitions" don't indicate anything of the sort. Just sounded quite patronising.
You can only work with the material you're given.

I like really obvious massive tunes personally. Much rather those than allegedly tasteful sublety. Most of the time that's just dull.

 

[empty mirror]

^ i'd agree that "massive tunes" are better for dancing
the brain and/or the palate gets in the way of the dance-urge
dance should not be about critical thinking unless you are sitting there watching a ballet or something

 

[massrock]

most everyone on here make a distinction between the djs that you like, kode 9 and who ever else, who put thought and feeling into the selection, into the flow, into the composition, versus the djs that you don't like, who are on auto-pilot playing minimal-by-numbers, dubstep-by-numbers or whatever-by-numbers.

I'm totally down with the feeling and timing thing, to me that's the most important part of DJing, that's what I like.

But I've had many arguments / discussions about this over the years and honestly some people will just never get it, they don't care or they have other criteria, whether they be DJs, musicians or punters.

I think we could probably with some effort even tease out what would appear to be 'objective' reasons why certain rhythms and sonics are 'better', why some art goes 'deeper', is more 'soulful', whatever. And in a way I'm all for that, that's kind of my team. But what I have been thinking about lately is the idea that what it comes down to is what you presently have a use for.

 

[zhao]

Of course everyone can tell the difference, but your initial "definitions" don't indicate anything of the sort. Just sounded quite patronising.
You can only work with the material you're given.

plenty of people got what i was on about.

I like really obvious massive tunes personally. Much rather those than allegedly tasteful sublety. Most of the time that's just dull.

the obvious massive tunes should be a part of the whole experience -- and when contrasted with "tastefully subtle" tunes they are that much bigger, and they bang that much harder.

and a few here need to look up a little device called hyperbole: when i say death to ear-bleeders, big ugly beats, or meat-head bangers, do i mean that people who make and play these musics should be shot in the back of the head?

the answer is no, i do not.

this thread is about music which seduces irresistably, music which motivates and propels you to get on the floor, versus music which relies on formulas which trigger pavlovian rave responses.

 

[massrock]

this thread is about music which seduces irresistably, music which motivates and propels you to get on the floor, versus music which relies on formulas which trigger pavlovian rave responses.

Sometimes people like being told what to do.

That's what they find seductive.

Weird as that may seem.

 

[zhao]

Sometimes people like being told what to do.

That's what they find seductive.

Weird as that may seem.

very true.

however that is not the sort of dj i aspire to be.

i want people to genuinely have a Good Time. instead of just another night of mindless bass and going through the motions of having a good time.

 

[empty mirror]

^ honestly though, is there a difference between a genuine good time and merely the symptoms of one?

 

[zhao]

^ honestly though, is there a difference between a genuine good time and merely the symptoms of one?

IMO a big difference.

once in a while i walk out of a club at 6AM feeling inspired and motivated, having doors opened in my mind, and can carry the elation into everyday life. (in addition to having fun)

most often i feel nothing other than having been routinely beaten up by a loud kick drum all night -- (which can of course be a good feeling, but it's not enough for me)

 

[Mr. Tea]

I don't think I've ever been made to dance against my will (although I'll admit I quite like the idea). So I think music that makes you dance and music that makes you want to dance are really the same thing. But there's also music that *temporarily* makes you think you want to dance...you know, like there was some really good stuff earlier and you're still in the mood, so you're still moving, but you suddenly think "Why am I dancing to this? It's actually not very good" - so then you get a drink and go and sit down for a bit or check out another room. Or tell the DJ it's someone else's turn (or your turn) to have a go if you're hosting a house party.

 

[massrock]

I would tend to think of it in holistic terms. Honouring many aspects of the human being and groups of human beings, simultaneously or over a duration. The full rinse out - physical, emotional, conceptual, social, sensual, spiritual...

The symptoms of a really good time are having a really good time and feeling energised, relaxed and free afterwords.

 

[slackk]

One man's eclectic set of endless possibilities is another's "i knew we should have went to Yates' in Stratford though".

 

[swears]

I am a working man and I need my bangers at the weekend. I love guys like Justice and Boys Noize because they sound great when I am out of my mind I wanna go crazy.

 

[Mr. Tea]

I've heard of Christian rock - Christian rave is a new one on me though.

 

[massrock]

Christian rave's not new at all. But I think that's Justice anyway. They're just French.

 

[zhao]

I would tend to think of it in holistic terms. Honouring many aspects of the human being and groups of human beings, simultaneously or over a duration. The full rinse out - physical, emotional, conceptual, social, sensual, spiritual...

The symptoms of a really good time are having a really good time and feeling energised, relaxed and free afterwords.

exactly.

but for me, and i think for a lot of other people, this is not what i get from most of what is out there.

 

[swears]

Haven't you seen the episode of Inspector Morse where there's some dodgy, cultish rave held at a church? That's what introduced me to the whole idea of dance music as a kid, haha.