Since it's been a while since we had an Israel/Palestine thread...

[mixed_biscuits]

Maybe hiding military installations within hospitals is a bit careless*? If the beheaded babies were a lie, what else might be? Hamas would slaughter innocents in cold blood but oh no they don't do spin, because that would make them as bad as New Labour!

*Under the Statute of the International Criminal Court “utilizing the presence of a civilian or other protected person to render certain points, areas or military forces immune from military operations” constitutes a war crime in international armed conflicts.

 

[hmg]

lol. Would you like to invest in my crypto scheme? No risk, 1000% profit guaranteed.

See for yourself. No blast damage, trees and buildings standing, cars burnt out but not shredded.
500 people killed here is clearly not possible.

 

[Mr. Tea]

Right, but he's an idiot and he's said the same thing about China, Russia, North Korea and whoever else. He says it about basically anyone. It's not newsworthy.

Yes, I suppose at this point "Trump says gratuitously dumb/false/offensive thing" is about as newsworthy as "Rain is wet."

 

[droid]

See for yourself. No blast damage, trees and buildings standing, cars burnt out but not shredded.
500 people killed here is clearly not possible.

Yeah, Ive seen the western OSINT propaganda, but forgive me if I fail to attach credence to a ghoul who thinks a badly faked conversation in Israeli accented arabic constitutes slam dunk evidence.

 

[maxi]

Maybe hiding military installations within hospitals is a bit careless*? If the beheaded babies were a lie, what else might be? Hamas would slaughter innocents in cold blood but oh no they don't do spin, because that would make them as bad as New Labour!

*Under the Statute of the International Criminal Court “utilizing the presence of a civilian or other protected person to render certain points, areas or military forces immune from military operations” constitutes a war crime in international armed conflicts.

I don't think even the IDF has claimed that military installations were hidden in this hospital though. Certainly no evidence has been presented of it. And they've repeatedly failed to present evidence in the past when making claims like that

There are numerous examples in this report from 2014

Israel/Palestine: Unlawful Israeli Airstrikes Kill Civilians

www.hrw.org

Here's an example of an attack on the 'fun time beach coffee shop'...

At 11:30 p.m. on July 9, 2014, an Israeli attack on the Fun Time Beach coffee shop on the beach near Khan Yunis, in southern Gaza, killed nine civilians, including two 15-year-old boys, and wounded three, including a critically injured 13-year-old, survivors and family members told Human Rights Watch.

The New York Times reported that an Israeli military spokesperson, Lt. Col. Peter Lerner, said that the military had fired a “precision strike” with a missile and was “targeting a terrorist,” but did not provide information about the target’s identity or the timing of the attack on a crowded café.

Human Rights Watch found no evidence that any of the victims was a member of an armed group or that there was a military objective in the area.

About an hour before the attack, patrons and workers saw a small missile strike a second beach establishment, the Layali Café, about 150 meters away. They walked over and put out the small fire that was burning there, and returned to the Fun Time Beach café, where they planned to watch a broadcast of the World Cup at midnight. The patrons assumed that the small missile strike was a mistake or random shooting from Israeli naval forces, said survivors and relatives who had spoken to the victims shortly before the strike."

*

there are loads of stories like this from the last 20 years or so in Gaza. The claims of rockets being stored in hospital basements etc are pure propaganda

 

[droid]

The fact that these images are iconic tells you all you need to know. Every single one denied by Israel. Pallywood they call it.

 

[maxi]

The fact that these images are iconic tells you all you need to know. Every single one denied by Israel. Pallywood they call it.

If you're arguing with people who believe the myths then photos don't seem to work very well unfortunately. The more horrifying ones like the top one will get attributed to 'fog of war' by people who view themselves as compassionate. They'll say stuff like "it's horrible to see that but Hamas are ultimately to blame and Israel make every effort to avoid civilians but in a war situation it's tragically not possible to avoid it 100% of the time." Hard facts from respected and neutral institutions demonstrating civilian targeting are more likely to persuade, but even then some people are a lost cause as the propaganda is too deeply rooted (not referring to anyone in this thread). They'll say Human Rights Watch are antisemitic (despite the fact that much of its staff are Jewish) or have an "anti-Israel bias" and are basing findings on testimonies from untrustworthy people. Even if you finally pin someone down on a specific situation and show all the evidence, they'll say it must have been a "rogue soldier" and never IDF policy to target civilians. And the killing continues.

 

[maxi]

Some things are completely in the open though. I mean even leaving aside the airstrikes, it's hard to argue against the notion that cutting off the food and water supply of an entire population is tantamount to attempted genocide. People are already dying of dehydration. I don't see how anyone can defend that. Keir Starmer was quick to say it's "Israel's right" to do so though.

 

[droid]

Oh, sure. Im just trying to point out all the infamous Israeli crimes that were vehemently denied at the time. There was a veritable cottage industry setup in the wake of the Jamal and Muhammad al-Durrah killings.

 

[maxi]

I feel like the only way this situation will ever change is if a US president steps in and says that's enough now guys. Biden ain't gonna do that. Maybe Cornel West when he gets in lol 🤞

 

[version]

 

[shakahislop]

the hospital bombing is truly the best case study of online information / misinformation. a full scale battle for western public opinion at a crucial moment.

 

[version]

I don't know what an Israeli rocket sounds like compared to a Hamas rocket tbh.

 

[shakahislop]

my guess would be that israel and the US are putting a lot of resources into influencing the online space. i don't think that's too paranoid a way of thinking about it.

 

[shakahislop]

don't know if it's specifically being in the US, in a city with a load of jewish people in its DNA, or that i've been online too much this week, but this conflict has been dominating my headspace and conversations. its saturated everything. it's half of what i see every time i go online, it's the subject of most of the podcasts i regularly listen to, i can see helicopters hovering over protests in midtown, there's posters showing the hostages on streetlights here and there, and so on.

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

I expect they emptied morgues all over the strip to get the numbers up

jesus fucking christ

 

[version]

A video of a missile launch captured in Gaza that dates to at least August 2022 has been falsely shared as footage showing a missile that struck Gaza’s Al-Ahli al-Arabi hospital in October 2023.

[...]

“Live footage of the moment Gaza hospital was bombed by Hamas own misfired rocket,” reads an Oct. 17 post on messaging platform X, formerly known as Twitter, sharing a nighttime video of a flare or missile redirecting to the ground shortly after rising into the sky.

The clip was also shared on Facebook.

The video was filmed in Gaza, but it predates the air strike in 2023. It was uploaded to YouTube on Aug. 7, 2022, with a description referencing a 2022 incident during a brief conflict between Hamas and Israel.

Fact Check: Video of missile strike near Gaza hospital predates October 2023 war

A video of a missile launch captured in Gaza that dates to at least August 2022 has been falsely shared as footage showing a missile that struck Gaza’s Al-Ahli al-Arabi hospital in October 2023.

www.reuters.com

 

[maxi]

my guess would be that israel and the US are putting a lot of resources into influencing the online space. i don't think that's too paranoid a way of thinking about it.

When grilled on it by the international community they'll have their excuses, but at the same time Israel have been pretty brazen in their statements lately. I don't think they give a fuck what people think much anymore. There was one government or military figure the other day (can't remember who now) who openly said Palestinian civilians are legitimate targets because they voted for Hamas. The defence minister issued a statement saying they are fighting "human animals". You don't get that kind of thing from other western powers

 

[maxi]

I don't think they put much effort into hasbarah (propaganda) anymore. they know the world hates them and the cameras are on gaza now, and they'll still do whatever they like cos the US backs them. they've been getting away with it for ages so why stop

 

[version]

When grilled on it by the international community they'll have their excuses, but at the same time Israel have been pretty brazen in their statements lately. I don't think they give a fuck what people think much anymore. There was one government or military figure the other day (can't remember who now) who openly said Palestinian civilians are legitimate targets because they voted for Hamas. The defence minister issued a statement saying they are fighting "human animals". You don't get that kind of thing from other western powers

They're really going all out with the rhetoric.

This one's been taken down since I posted it.