maxi
Well-known member
Israel Has No Right of Self-Defense Against Gaza
Israel has no legal right to use any kind of force in Gaza — under any circumstances.
jacobin.com
Since it's been a while since we had an Israel/Palestine thread...
- Thread starter Mr. Tea
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jacobin.com
maxi
Well-known member
As the jacobin article states:
"A rapist cannot claim a right to self-defense if the victim pummels him. A theater owner has no right to self-defense if patrons attack him after he sets the building ablaze and impedes their flight. Israel’s conduct vis-à-vis Gaza falls in this category of acts that render null and void the right to self-defense.
[...]
Israel cannot claim a right to use any force in Gaza — whether moderate or excessive, proportionate or disproportionate; whether protesters are unarmed or armed, don’t or do pose an imminent threat to life. If it appears otherwise, that’s because the current debate ignores critical caveats in international law and abstracts from the specific situation in Gaza.
(article is about Israel's slaughter of peaceful protesters in 2018 but I think it applies here too)
Even if Israel wasn't massacring civilians en masse, which it obviously is, it doesn't have the right to attack Hamas targets even. You can't just kill people because they're members of an organisation that has committed acts of terrorism.
And even if you were to consider high-level individual Hamas commanders legitimate targets, that doesn't mean bombing their homes is legitimate, as Israel has done. Even if no one else was killed. But they are killed though, nearly 10,000 of them. Hundreds of children every day.
I mean it's kind of demeaning to even debate it at this point. Those providing apologetics for a large-scale massacre are either completely depraved, easily manipulated by absurd propaganda, or they have a strong emotional barrier that prevents them from admitting what's happening to themselves and taking a rational position (that last one applies to much of my family and many in orthodox jewish communities unfortunately)
"A rapist cannot claim a right to self-defense if the victim pummels him. A theater owner has no right to self-defense if patrons attack him after he sets the building ablaze and impedes their flight. Israel’s conduct vis-à-vis Gaza falls in this category of acts that render null and void the right to self-defense.
[...]
Israel cannot claim a right to use any force in Gaza — whether moderate or excessive, proportionate or disproportionate; whether protesters are unarmed or armed, don’t or do pose an imminent threat to life. If it appears otherwise, that’s because the current debate ignores critical caveats in international law and abstracts from the specific situation in Gaza.
(article is about Israel's slaughter of peaceful protesters in 2018 but I think it applies here too)
Even if Israel wasn't massacring civilians en masse, which it obviously is, it doesn't have the right to attack Hamas targets even. You can't just kill people because they're members of an organisation that has committed acts of terrorism.
And even if you were to consider high-level individual Hamas commanders legitimate targets, that doesn't mean bombing their homes is legitimate, as Israel has done. Even if no one else was killed. But they are killed though, nearly 10,000 of them. Hundreds of children every day.
I mean it's kind of demeaning to even debate it at this point. Those providing apologetics for a large-scale massacre are either completely depraved, easily manipulated by absurd propaganda, or they have a strong emotional barrier that prevents them from admitting what's happening to themselves and taking a rational position (that last one applies to much of my family and many in orthodox jewish communities unfortunately)
mixed_biscuits
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If 1,000 people are trying to kill Rambo, Rambo is then trying to kill 1,000 people. There is no 'exchange rate' once it has been established that might is right by the original aggressor - it's absolute might rather than might per capita because it is not a test of individual skill but merely two camps trying to force their way to achieving their goals.
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
Takes a lot of courage to do this in Israel rn
A lot more than it takes to join the chorus of voices calling for more blood
A lot more than it takes to join the chorus of voices calling for more blood
mixed_biscuits
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The thing is any similar images acquired from most of the large image generators were probably also 'purchased' when people buy their tokens....at least with Adobe the implication is that they could have some sort of vetting process by a human. In short, Adobe shouldn't be being picked on for this; it's a general problem.Crikey indeed.
Adobe Caught Selling AI-Generated Images of Israel-Palestine Violence
Software giant Adobe has been caught selling AI-generated images of the Israel-Hamas war, as spotted by Australian news outlet Crikey.futurism.com
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
The editor of Israel's RW English language newspaper published an editorial a couple days ago saying if you're not with is you're not a real Jew
m.jpost.com
Editor's Notes: No longer part of us
While they may still technically be Jewish due to their parentage or conversion, while they may lead superficially Jewish lives, we can no longer consider them part of Klal Yisrael.
m.jpost.com
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
And Netanyahu was forced to suspend a minister from Otzma Yehudit - Itamar Ben-Gvir's party - for suggesting they could drop a nuke on Gaza
www.politico.eu
Israel minister suspended after calling nuking Gaza an option
Heritage Minister Amichai Eliyahu’s statements ‘are not based in reality,’ Prime Minister Netanyahu says.
www.politico.eu
mixed_biscuits
_________________________
Grim. Who knows what happened but wouldn't bombs have left craters or other damage?
mixed_biscuits
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My point was about the Palestinians; there may be a couple of trees of bad apples in Israel but it's a liberal democracy where most things are allowed. If Palestine were to take over the whole gaff, it would obviously be a lot less liberal - no more Dana International for you.you're literally describing a significant portion of the current Israeli govt. Ben-Gvir, Smotrich, Avi Maoz, Zvi Sukkot (a literal terrorist), Moshe Gafni, Orit Strook, etc.
here's Yitzhak Pindrus, who said that queer people are a bigger threat to Israel than Hamas
Coalition MK: LGBTQ community poses greater threat to Israel than Hezbollah or Hamas
Yitzhak Pindrus of the United Torah Judaism party says that it's his duty to 'not only prevent the Pride parade, but in general to prevent this movement'www.google.com
Or May Golan, a self-avowed racist
Politician who called herself 'mother of the politically incorrect' offered Israel's top diplomatic post in NYC - Jewish Telegraphic Agency
Golan, 36, is one of the most outspoken right-wing voices in Israel's Knesset.www.jta.org
I have, for the xth time, been posting about this very thing for weeks.
mixed_biscuits
_________________________
You're festooned with pedantic facts like some walking Christmas tree but neither you nor any of the other far-left fact-collectors have done anything to help bring peace to the region. You can have all the facts you want but if you dehumanise everybody then your interpretation of wants and needs and interactions is going to fall lamentably short. You appear to have made some attempt to identify with the far-right Palestinians so maybe you can put in the same effort for the Israelis to get a better read.
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
Good luck selling that position to anyone
It's not as crazy as the (very) rare takes you see on Twitter of tankies or whoever uncritically supporting Hamas actions but yeah I mean come on
Disproportionate response, collective punishment, indiscriminate killing of civilians, apartheid, etc, absolutely yes
But you're going to have a very hard time finding people who agree that Israel isn't allowed to respond militarily direct attacks, even if it has created the conditions leading those attacks
And again, no one actually cares about international law. It's an elaborate fiction. It's better than nothing, but as long as the current global order holds no one from a major power or allied to a major power will ever be prosecuted for war crimes.
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
I like how every single time it's demonstrated you guys have absolutely no clue what you're talking about your last resort is "facts and books are for losers bro"
and I thought you were supposed to be the erudite one of the RW crew with your utilitarian larping lol
Like there's people out there who can argue your positions such as they are from a coherent, informed place. I disagree with them, but they know what they're talking about. It's just that you specifically don't.
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
You beat me to it - was about to post this.And Netanyahu was forced to suspend a minister from Otzma Yehudit - Itamar Ben-Gvir's party - for suggesting they could drop a nuke on Gaza
Israel minister suspended after calling nuking Gaza an option
Heritage Minister Amichai Eliyahu’s statements ‘are not based in reality,’ Prime Minister Netanyahu says.
The whole country (bar those protesting) looks like a complete fucking basket case right now.
mixed_biscuits
_________________________
The parallel is distasteful given the ethnicities.Israel Has No Right of Self-Defense Against Gaza
Israel has no legal right to use any kind of force in Gaza — under any circumstances.
Who does the same about the British bombing of Dresden or the bombing in Japan? The allies' approach in World War Two was to lard it on thicker the weaker the enemy got.
mixed_biscuits
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So you've written a pro-terrorist apologetic to condemn pro-terrorist apologetics? No wonder your family disagree with you.
mixed_biscuits
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Good on the protestors; the other guys aren't attacking them they are just arguing before they inevitably come to an agreement.
mixed_biscuits
_________________________
Is he Benakin Skywalker?The editor of Israel's RW English language newspaper published an editorial a couple days ago saying if you're not with is you're not a real Jew
Editor's Notes: No longer part of us
While they may still technically be Jewish due to their parentage or conversion, while they may lead superficially Jewish lives, we can no longer consider them part of Klal Yisrael.
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
come on bro
it's not buried 40 pages back or whatever, I literally posted about this yesterday
this is why no one takes you seriously, or one of the reasons at least. you don't even make the effort to read things that are spoonfed to you.
mixed_biscuits
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I think that the Israel-Palestine left wing fact collecting is merely virtue signalling that, for once for left wing people, has actually got ensnared in some reality principle. My point is that these piles of facts are not different enough to each other to add much and do nothing for interpretation if the mind-reading is constrained by the perennial moralising dichotomies so beloved by the left (i.e. oppressor vs oppressed, good lefties vs bad righties etc.). Because the mind-reading is so simplistic the forecasting is also simplistic: the idea that should a two-state gambit be attempted everyone will live happily ever after because the oppressor/oppressed dichotomy has been flattened is absurd. Of course, the alternative left wing prognosis is just for Palestine to take over everything but then that prospect would justify Israel going frantic....this is how that sort of campaigning can be counter-productive.
mixed_biscuits
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I'm referring to the video I'm referring to.