Since it's been a while since we had an Israel/Palestine thread...

[mixed_biscuits]

Predictably, they're claiming Hamas uses ambulances to transport weapons and fighters... If they had a weapon which destroyed the atmosphere, they'd claim Hamas uses it to breathe.

If Hamas aren't using ambulances as transport then they are missing a trick because it's PR gold. Given that they know this one can safely assume that they are doing this; the only uncertainty is the proportion of ambulances that aren't being used for this purpose...and even if they could transport the injured in civilian vehicles they shouldn't because then they wouldn't be able to point to innocent people being killed in ambulances.

You guys can't even see from your own side's perspective, let alone the others.

 

[mixed_biscuits]

It's laughable that Hamas, having committed a world historical atrocity, would on watching back footage of the massacre realise that they had gone too far and that now what is of paramount importance is to revert to the Queensbury rules of warfare and vow that they would on no account resort to hitting below the belt or even switching to southpaw. If you think they are going to play fair then either you're world historically gullible or you're being their unpaid PR, while knowing the truth, which is despicable.

 

[thirdform]

It's laughable that Hamas, having committed a world historical atrocity, would on watching back footage of the massacre realise that they had gone too far and that now what is of paramount importance is to revert to the Queensbury rules of warfare and vow that they would on no account resort to hitting below the belt or even switching to southpaw. If you think they are going to play fair then either you're world historically gullible or you're being their unpaid PR, while knowing the truth, which is despicable.

what's the exchange rate though?

if you can't answer this then you should definitely torture yourself until you find out the answer. or accept beta status... you choose.

 

[thirdform]

I mean even Israel warns civilians that they're going to get bombed. Yet you can't even tell us the exchange rate? It's really abject, you know. how on earth are palestinians supposed to prepare themselves when the xoxo xoxo is not clarified? what on earth are hm govt and @chava going to think when they read the headlines? Mixed Biscuits: 'I support Israel because it is a state which engages in predatory sexual behaviour.' is this what you want to be associated with? Is this the hill you really want to die on, Toby?

 

[Clinamenic]

Crikey indeed.

Adobe Caught Selling AI-Generated Images of Israel-Palestine Violence

Software giant Adobe has been caught selling AI-generated images of the Israel-Hamas war, as spotted by Australian news outlet Crikey.

futurism.com

 

[thirdform]

It's laughable that Hamas, having committed a world historical atrocity, would on watching back footage of the massacre realise that they had gone too far and that now what is of paramount importance is to revert to the Queensbury rules of warfare and vow that they would on no account resort to hitting below the belt or even switching to southpaw. If you think they are going to play fair then either you're world historically gullible or you're being their unpaid PR, while knowing the truth, which is despicable.

we're fucking waiting here, Toby. hurry up and give us the exchange rate. we haven't got all day!

 

[thirdform]

absolute coward, the worst englishman to have ever existed.

 

[droid]

IDF claiming that this 'recording' proves their massacre on the costal road was caused by Hamas snipers. It would be utterly laughable if it wasn't so grim.

 

[DannyL]

IDF claiming that this 'recording' proves their massacre on the costal road was caused by Hamas snipers. It would be utterly laughable if it wasn't so grim.

It really is reminiscent of Syria - bombing humanitarian corridors, hospitals, bakeries and so on. Really abject.

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

to make it relevant to this thread, apparently the anti-fascist take here is to align oneself with theocratic, patriarchal, ultra-conservative, homophobic, illiberal terrorists

you're literally describing a significant portion of the current Israeli govt. Ben-Gvir, Smotrich, Avi Maoz, Zvi Sukkot (a literal terrorist), Moshe Gafni, Orit Strook, etc.

here's Yitzhak Pindrus, who said that queer people are a bigger threat to Israel than Hamas

Coalition MK: LGBTQ community poses greater threat to Israel than Hezbollah or Hamas

Yitzhak Pindrus of the United Torah Judaism party says that it's his duty to 'not only prevent the Pride parade, but in general to prevent this movement'

www.google.com

Or May Golan, a self-avowed racist

Politician who called herself 'mother of the politically incorrect' offered Israel's top diplomatic post in NYC - Jewish Telegraphic Agency

Golan, 36, is one of the most outspoken right-wing voices in Israel's Knesset.

www.jta.org

I have, for the xth time, been posting about this very thing for weeks.

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

That's not even counting the large # of cabinet ministers and MKs - it's basically the default Likud position - who advocate for full annexation of the WB and expulsion of Palestinians to Jordan (in this fantasy scenario, Egypt agrees to take on Gaza for...reasons).

Or the attacks of the Israeli security state on Israeli dissidents

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

Here's Smotrich trying to set the West Bank on fire so the settler fanatics can live out their Amalek fantasy

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

As I said to your mate chava, please learn literally anything about Israel before continuing to speak from a place of such deep ignorance

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

(btw, don't want to imply by heavily referencing Haaretz that it's perfect. They for example published an insane editorial by Benny Morris a few days ago arguing that Israel should attack Iran while the iron is hot. But it is the only major Israeli outlet I know that offers a diverse range of Israeli opinion in English).

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

You mean the terrorist attack was organised by Israel? That's quite a conspiracy theory.

Netanyahu's policy since 2009 has to been strengthen Hamas and weaken the PA in service of preventing a Palestinian state. It's no secret, and has been widely remarked upon by Israeli politicians, intelligence chiefs, etc as well as foreign observers.

I brought it up two weeks ago

One very important thing to note is that any gains Hamas has made are a direct result of Netanyahu's longrunning policy of deliberately strengthening Hamas and weakening the Palestinian Authority/Fatah, as well as keeping the two divided, in order to undermine a two-state solution.

It's unfortunately behind a paywall, but this by far the most detailed account I've seen of that policy, dating back almost 15 years (since the end of Cast Lead basically). Hard to sum up briefly bc there's so much, but it's quite damning.

A brief history of the Netanyahu-Hamas alliance | Opinion

***

www.haaretz.com

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

If they had a weapon which destroyed the atmosphere, they'd claim Hamas uses it to breathe.

"It became necessary to destroy the town to save it"

 

[droid]

The OSINT people are really showing their asses now. I follow a lot of these shitheads to see whats happening in Ukraine and was aware of their bias, but its still a surprise to see just how awful they are.

 

[yyaldrin]

i saw that tweet too and was thinking well that would have actually been a good thing?

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

I think one of Israel's goals is to encourage and direct Palestinians towards violent resistance, which it considers advantageous politically as it then has an excuse not to conduct genuine peace talks which would result in a Palestinian state. 'we dont negotiate with terrorists' etc.

As abhorrent as I find many of your views, credit where it's due, the last few posts here are very solid.

The only point I'd really dispute is that this is Netanyahu's goal - or, the goal of individual politicians and parties - rather than a consistent universal Israeli goal over the last 56 years. If you look at the history of the occupations, what is clear is that there is no coherent long-term strategy beyond indefinite occupation. Some govts (Rabin, Barak, Olmert) were willing to negotiate. Their levels of commitment in those negotiations - which were generally very unpopular with the Israeli public btw - can be disputed, but certainly they did not intentionally channel Palestinians toward violent resistance as Netanyahu's has done by deliberately strengthening Hamas.

What has happened is a rightward arc in Israeli politics over time, driven largely by increased religiosity and the unwillingness of govts, for various reasons, to rein in RW extremism. The deliberate channeling of Palestinians toward violent resistance directly follows from that rightward shift in Israeli domestic politics. I agree 100% that the only realistic solution is a Palestinian state where they can live in dignity, it's been the basis of every negotiation. The problem is that with every passing year it seems less likely that there will be an Israeli govt that is a willing negotiation partner (and that was before the national psyche shattering events of Oct 7).

 

[version]

If Hamas aren't using ambulances as transport then they are missing a trick because it's PR gold. Given that they know this one can safely assume that they are doing this; the only uncertainty is the proportion of ambulances that aren't being used for this purpose...and even if they could transport the injured in civilian vehicles they shouldn't because then they wouldn't be able to point to innocent people being killed in ambulances.

You guys can't even see from your own side's perspective, let alone the others.

It'd be an effective tactic and I wouldn't be surprised if Hamas were doing it, but I don't trust the claims of the IDF and the Israeli government. Also, if their claims are true, the other day they allegedly killed something like 150 civilians, and injured a few hundred more, air-striking a single Hamas commander...