geopolitics

[Benny Bunter]

Peter Hitchens points out World War 2 was all about Ukraine as well, much more than it was about western Europe.

And the UK is what it is because it's an island. We've been incredibly lucky to be surrounded by sea.

 

[woops]

now would be the time to cite that headline
FOG IN THE CHANNEL
CONTINENT ISOLATED

 

[Benny Bunter]

There's a lot of talk of the various effects of Britain being an island, both in material terms and psychologically, ideologically, etc. It's quite convincing.

Snap

 

[luka]

Peter Hitchens points out World War 2 was all about Ukraine as well, much more than it was about western Europe.

was it? whats the argument? i didnt pay attention in school

 

[Benny Bunter]

was it? whats the argument? i didnt pay attention in school

That the great rivalry has been for a very long time between Russia and Germany, with Ukraine in between.

Hitchems extends this into the present with the EU being fundamentally a German project.

 

[Benny Bunter]

An argument worth listening to

 

[luka]

is that right

 

[version]

I thought he said it was because Putin smoked skunk.

 

[Benny Bunter]

I'm no expert, but I think Ukraine was probably the most serious battleground in ww2. Terribly unlucky place to live, caught between these two great rival powers.

 

[luka]

as i understand it ukraine is important for russia cos you can reach the black sea, move troops thru it to and from europe, pipelaines, and you can grow crops

 

[Benny Bunter]

is that right

The argument is the real heart of ww2 was in eastern Europe rather than the west. We have a UK-centric view of it obviously, but if you take account of the 'phoney war' where basically fuck all happened on the western front for ages at the start of the war, it begins to make sense.

 

[luka]

i think thats why vim said putin had to do it. and craner was outraged.

 

[IdleRich]

area is important but it also depends on what it is comprised of. what grows there. what shape it is. what the borders are. whether you can reach the sea. energy reserves. minerals. crop yields. what population it can carry.

Are you saying it's not how big it is it's what you do with it?

 

[IdleRich]

A lot's made of Afghanistan's geography being one of its greatest weapons. The graveyard of empires.

But when they win it's also the graveyard of them too... I suspect without knowing anything about it.

 

[Benny Bunter]

as i understand it ukraine is important for russia cos you can reach the black sea, move troops thru it to and from europe, pipelaines, and you can grow crops

Yeah, that's why it's a curse to live there between Russia and Europe. And now the US is laying claim to their mineral resources.

 

[version]

aleksander dugin

 

[IdleRich]

by the same logic the us has to end up in posession of greenland

Has to try msybe

 

[Benny Bunter]

i think thats why vim said putin had to do it. and craner was outraged.

You start to see why there's no way Russia can ever accept Ukraine joining nato

 

[IdleRich]

There's a lot of talk of the various effects of Britain being an island, both in material terms and psychologically, ideologically, etc. It's quite convincing.

When Liza moved from Russia to UK she really kinda thought it would be somewhere where she could see the sea on all sides all the time... obviously she didn't but she sort of did if you see what I mean.

 

[IdleRich]

Yeah, that's why it's a curse to live there between Russia and Europe. And now the US is laying claim to their mineral resources.

What about Belarus is that crucially important too?