salute tottenham

[john eden]

The lack of coverage for the march is depressing, but predictable.

I was doing my bit at the front of the march when it started and the whole thing was blocked off by people with cameras, including TV crews...

But it was a really good way to spend an afternoon I thought, inspiring and hopefully something that will lead to other stuff at a community level. I saw neighbours, people from work, people off the internet...

Vimothy -any comment on the IPCC "inadvertently" misleading the press?

 

[Mr. Tea]

fucking fuck. why don't embeds work more than half the time anymore?

In FF, right-click on the video, then 'Copy video URL'.

Paste the URL into your post and brace it with 'video' and '/video' in square brackets, or click the filmreel icon then ctrl-v the URL into the box when prompted.



Great find, btw.

 

[crackerjack]

Vimothy -any comment on the IPCC "inadvertently" misleading the press?

I regret to say Vimothy has been busy making a fool of himself defending Starkey on other websites.

 

[you]

so great - nice find

 

[crackerjack]

In FF, right-click on the video, then 'Copy video URL'.

Paste the URL into your post and brace it with 'video' and '/video' in square brackets, or click the filmreel icon then ctrl-v the URL into the box when prompted.

Great find, btw.

So basically an html version of what you'd on Facebook, skipping the embed code altogether?

 

[gumdrops]

one of you lot should tweet paul lewis or some other guardian journo with news about that march.

the idea of sending that mother down cos her SON rioted and stole some stuff is fucking draconian. same for ppl getting 4/5 months for taking a few bottles of water or a bottle of wine. i mean, i understand making an example of people, and being hard on this sort of thing, but fucking hell. making someone homeless? unless she sent him out there to get something for her or was upset he didnt get the flat screen she ordered him to pick up, how is it her fault? not all parents can dictate what their kids do 24/7.

great how the debate now seems to be disinterested in how we can prevent this happening again/what happened to start this in the first place and were just settling on easy condemnation/lock em up for life stupidity. last time i checked you could still call for punishment and ppl to take responsiblity etc AND want something to be done to improve the lives of some of the poorest places in the country. love how cameron seems to have reverted to tory type so quickly (though tbh i cant imagine any other PM wouldnt say the same - unless anyone can remember previous ones saying anything diff in response to this kind of scenario).

 

[crackerjack]

I was doing my bit at the front of the march when it started and the whole thing was blocked off by people with cameras, including TV crews...

So you couldn't move for TV crews and cameras, and yet there was no media coverage?

And we wonder why they riot

 

[you]

one of you lot should tweet paul lewis or some other guardian journo with news about that march.

the idea of sending that mother down cos her SON rioted and stole some stuff is fucking draconian. same for ppl getting 4/5 months for taking a few bottles of water or a bottle of wine. i mean, i understand making an example of people, and being hard on this sort of thing, but fucking hell. making someone homeless? unless she sent him out there to get something for her or was upset he didnt get the flat screen she ordered him to pick up, how is it her fault? not all parents can dictate what their kids do 24/7.

great how the debate now seems to be disinterested in how we can prevent this happening again/what happened to start this in the first place and were just settling on easy condemnation/lock em up for life stupidity. last time i checked you could still call for punishment and ppl to take responsiblity etc AND want something to be done to improve the lives of some of the poorest places in the country. love how cameron seems to have reverted to tory type so quickly (though tbh i cant imagine any other PM wouldnt say the same - unless anyone can remember previous ones saying anything diff in response to this kind of scenario).

he was very forgiving and understanding of how law breakers need a second chance - with regards to coulson ( frankly ) next riot to be held in peaslake anyone?

 

[john eden]

So you couldn't move for TV crews and cameras, and yet there was no media coverage?

And we wonder why they riot

Quite.

LONDON — As political and social protests grip the Middle East, are growing in Europe and a riot exploded in north London this weekend, here’s a sad truth, expressed by a Londoner when asked by a television reporter: Is rioting the correct way to express your discontent?

“Yes,” said the young man. “You wouldn’t be talking to me now if we didn’t riot, would you?”

The TV reporter from Britain’s ITV had no response. So the young man pressed his advantage. “Two months ago we marched to Scotland Yard, more than 2,000 of us, all blacks, and it was peaceful and calm and you know what? Not a word in the press. Last night a bit of rioting and looting and look around you.”

Eavesdropping from among the onlookers, I looked around. A dozen TV crews and newspaper reporters interviewing the young men everywhere.

http://worldblog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/08/07/7292281-the-sad-truth-behind-london-riot

(last Sunday)

 

[Mr. Tea]

not all parents can dictate what their kids do 24/7.

Commentators from both left and right have been talking about how little control (many) parents have over their kids these days - "People ask 'Why aren't parents calling their kids home?' Those days are long gone" (The Guardian recently) - so it seems more futile than ever to punish parents for their childrens' crimes. Unless, as you say, the parents clearly either don't give a shit or are actively encouraging it, which could be the case for some of them.

OTOH some of the rioters have been shopped by their own mums.

Edit: so basically Cameron is reiterating Blair's old "Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime" mantra, only without the "causes" bit. Doesn't bode too well, does it?

 

[crackerjack]

great how the debate now seems to be disinterested in how we can prevent this happening again/what happened to start this in the first place and were just settling on easy condemnation/lock em up for life stupidity. last time i checked you could still call for punishment and ppl to take responsiblity etc AND want something to be done to improve the lives of some of the poorest places in the country. love how cameron seems to have reverted to tory type so quickly (though tbh i cant imagine any other PM wouldnt say the same - unless anyone can remember previous ones saying anything diff in response to this kind of scenario).

I asked a copper friend about the zero-tolerance guff. I dunno how representative he is, but he's dead against it. We have this image of it as draconian policing, but what it effectively does is take away the coppers' discretion about what laws they think are worth enforcing. He said he'd flat-out refuse to police that way. Be interested to hear more about this (come on, I can't be the only dissensian with friends on the wrong side of the law ).

 

[crackerjack]

well that was a conversation killer. good job i didn't mention my uncle in MI5...

 

[computer_rock]

the oppressive atmosphere in london at the moment is too much. a week of endless sirens and police on every corner - is this really starting to get to anyone else? i'm not even black...

 

[crackerjack]

the oppressive atmosphere in london at the moment is too much. a week of endless sirens and police on every corner - is this really starting to get to anyone else? i'm not even black...

just wait til they cancel carnival...

 

[Mr. Tea]

I am I living in a retrospective make-believe world when I say that once upon a time, most people would have known their "local bobby", at least by sight, if not by name? It strikes me that the police these days are more or less totally alienated from the communities they nominally serve - or rather, the other way round. They only ever seem to be visible in public when they're out in force to quell some disturbance, to pre-emptively stop 'disturbances' happening (e.g. when a few grannies assemble to protest against nuclear weapons, thus invoking the full force of anti-terrorism legislation) or when conducting a dawn raid on a drugs gang. And when they're stopping and questioning every other black kid walking down the street, of course.

I also think this planned reduction in police numbers (still going ahead, despite the events of the last week) can only be disastrous. We don't need fewer police, we need more of them - but at the same time, they should look and act like an ordinary civilian police force and not some fucking paramilitary strike force that shoot first and obfuscate questions later.

 

[Mr. Tea]

BTW, I'm not trying to sound like I'm subscribing to some Daily Mail-esque fantasy past when youth crime didn't exist because coppers could give naughty young apple-stealing scamps a sound clip round the ear before it was banned by the PC loonies.

The police don't deal in clips-round-the-ear these days, they beat the living bejaysus out of people with big metal sticks. Or, apparently, just shoot them.

 

[IdleRich]

Agree with what has been said above about the sentencing - the only word for it is vindictive. I guess it's going to make a few people feel better in the short term but that's about it.
Also, felt myself cringing when I went in my local corner shop run by a Kurdish family and heard two customers in a row gushing about their respect for the Turkish community after the recent events.

 

[gumdrops]

they should look and act like an ordinary civilian police force and not some fucking paramilitary strike force that shoot first and obfuscate questions later.

isnt that the community officers/volunteers do?

 

[baboon2004]

Agree with what has been said above about the sentencing - the only word for it is vindictive. I guess it's going to make a few people feel better in the short term but that's about it.
Also, felt myself cringing when I went in my local corner shop run by a Kurdish family and heard two customers in a row gushing about their respect for the Turkish community after the recent events.

It's horrific and horrifically stupid. Pure vindictiveness, indeed.

Bet they were pleased! And anyways, apart from those customers' unfortunate faux pas, the Turkish (and Kurdish obv) community is in my experience the most overwhelmingly friendly I've encountered in London anywyas - the insinuation that they've 'earned' 'our' respect only now is just.... *bangs head against wall and facepalms simultaneously*

 

[you]

I am I living in a retrospective make-believe world when I say that once upon a time, most people would have known their "local bobby", at least by sight, if not by name? It strikes me that the police these days are more or less totally alienated from the communities they nominally serve - or rather, the other way round. They only ever seem to be visible in public when they're out in force to quell some disturbance, to pre-emptively stop 'disturbances' happening (e.g. when a few grannies assemble to protest against nuclear weapons, thus invoking the full force of anti-terrorism legislation) or when conducting a dawn raid on a drugs gang. And when they're stopping and questioning every other black kid walking down the street, of course.

I also think this planned reduction in police numbers (still going ahead, despite the events of the last week) can only be disastrous. We don't need fewer police, we need more of them - but at the same time, they should look and act like an ordinary civilian police force and not some fucking paramilitary strike force that shoot first and obfuscate questions later.

isnt that the community officers/volunteers do?

actually - I know a PCSO, he's not allowed to work around the borough he lives in, granted this doesn't stop people knowing him as their 'local bobby' but this is not a reality as they areconstantly rotating around a borough - sharing out the responsibilities and territories whilst also spending more time desk bound ( latter point applies to the policemen, not so much the PCSO's who have less paper work, more time out on the streets but still rotate patches and so loose tangible visibility ).

To revert to a time when policemen could clock off and say to the kids they just clipped round the ear on the way down the pub would take a massive change, I don't think it's feasible - for a start the police would have to simultaneously gain power and respect ( the two entities giving one another a soaring feedback of re-inforcement )....mmmmm anyone has police/population for britain over the years? Or police budget/ UK turnover - vimothy?