apparently theres quite a few turkish shops which double up as heroin storefronts so they might not be as wholesome as some might like to think. but thats my main problem with most of these 'good immigrant or 'good minority' discussions and articles - the way it has to be one or the other. not much room for movement in these sorts of generalisations.
salute tottenham
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crackerjack
Well-known member
crackerjack
Well-known member
I did mischievously think at the time this might be why they were so determined to protect them, but I kinda kept that thought to myself :slanted:
you
Well-known member
did your cop mate tell you it was in your interest to keep this to your self? *up on some corruptionist / David Peace tip*
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IdleRich
IdleRich
It wasn't so much the Turkish/Kurdish thing - I mean they are from Turkey I think and they seem to have an affiliation - it was the patronising nature of the comment. Basically what you're saying in the second part. They just seemed bemused, why should they take "credit" for what some guys in Dalston did? Especially when they just shut up their shop early and went home.
crackerjack
Well-known member
baboon2004
Darned cockwombles.
well exactly - same with the 'good poor' and the 'bad poor' - workign class people must be either 'salt of the earth' types or 'mindless holligans' - no room for much complexity.
as to heroin, the various mafias will always deal in those businesses deemed illegal, so little surprise i guess. legalisation and taxation of drugs, etc etc.
baboon2004
Darned cockwombles.
ah i see - that's what i thought you meant initially, but then i thought of the second possible meaning after that, Kurdish people not being fond of Turkish government repression etc (but tbh I dont' know what the realtions are between the two communities in London - never noticed any tension, but...).
Yeah, essentialising people is the problem with everything, pretty much.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/aug/14/young-british-rioters-political-actions
this is good.
and echoes my earlier comments about posing a threat to social order in terms of the rioters wreaking revenge on the police/showing them they cant do anything etc etc.
doubt that gary reads dissensus however.
this is good.
and echoes my earlier comments about posing a threat to social order in terms of the rioters wreaking revenge on the police/showing them they cant do anything etc etc.
doubt that gary reads dissensus however.baboon2004
Darned cockwombles.
Excellent article. I like the way he places events in a European context too. Slightly confused by the non-mention of the massive protests that DID occur in Spain in April/May, and how they were more brutally suppressed than anything that has happened in the UK in the past 12 months.
The only way to get any change would be for the various groups who are disgruntled with the current situation to come together. Does anyone know of any recent examples where the 'politicised' left and street level protest have united, rather than representing two different forms of protest? Is this what happened in Greece (I'm woefully about what happened there)?
The only way to get any change would be for the various groups who are disgruntled with the current situation to come together. Does anyone know of any recent examples where the 'politicised' left and street level protest have united, rather than representing two different forms of protest? Is this what happened in Greece (I'm woefully about what happened there)?
IdleRich
IdleRich
Yeah, I wonder about the relations myself - not too bad in this case I think because one time I went in and there was news about Turkey being accepted into the EU and the Independent (instead of news) had a big Turkish flag on the front page and one of the guys kinda held it up triumphantly to me. I'd like to ask them more about it really but I don't wanna piss them off - the guy behind the counter has arms that are thicker than my legs.
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
Yeah, I think most the skag that enters Britain does so via Turkey and Turkish (perhops ethnically Kurdish, I dunno) people living here. But the best place I ever lived in London was along Green Lanes, and I never felt remotely unsafe there. Turkish gangsterism seems to stay very much in the community, or is directed against other criminal elements. Sure, there was a spate of murders about 10 years ago (I think it's calmed down since then) but as far as I'm aware no civilians were ever hurt. Whereas, it has to be said, the black gangs generally don't give a shit who gets hurt or killed when they settle their beefs in public.
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baboon2004
Darned cockwombles.
I guess it's super-complicated...Probably somewhat depends whether the person in question is British-born or themselves emigrated from Turkey (in which case I imagine the tensions are likely to be more foregrounded int heir minds?).
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
Thanks for that - pretty bang on, I reckon. "Political orphans" is a great phrase, very apt.
now im waiting for the mail article about 'good gangs' vs 'bad ones'.
crackerjack
Well-known member
Really disappointed by the Tony Sewell piece on Starkey in Mail today. I've got a lot of respect for Sewell, but parts of that are just plain wrong, others grossly simplified. No wonder Nick Griffin's been singing its praises on Twitter.
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
Stop being a smart-arse. Gangs that have shoot-outs in public and kill innocent bystanders are worse than gangs that don't, aren't they?
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Slothrop
Tight but Polite
Is it the same kind of gangsterism, though? I mean, running a large scale heroin import and distribution operation is probably going to involve different sorts of people and different sorts of behaviour from the kind of ground-up parochial thing that people normally mean when they talk about 'gang culture'...
And yeah, when I heard that local shopkeepers on Green Lanes had banded together to keep out the looters I did half wonder how badly it would turn out for the people who picked the wrong place to smash up...