Brexit Day
- Thread starter IdleRich
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- & met with rocco forte a licky boom boom down active rich but you said you’d use butter charge of the light brigade eden annihilating idle richie eden smashing mr teas face he'll be tired by sunrise john's audit long john eden love me dog love me wife luka is a genius not the brexit i voted for petty and spiteful sex arse tycoon testicle growth the day john eden went full ukip the key to your stupidity tomato shortage pizza you brexit you buy it
john eden
male pale and stale
But what makes you think this is anywhere near to being attempted Rich? It’s up there with EU supporting aliens invading us in UFOs and seizing control.
john eden
male pale and stale
Yeah no worries. So it won’t be reversed any time soon. Which means we have to live with it I’m afraid. It is the new normal.
That's a bit of a cop out though, isn't it? Surely there's more than one way to keep plugging away? I'm not convinced the only options are give up or keep working under the pretense there are no mistakes to be learned from. How do you do anything differently if you never collectively assess the mistakes of the past?
IdleRich
IdleRich
I have my fantasy that they ask for a delay, you know extend the transition period, as they were being advised when it was legally possible... and then then the delay - they are perfectly correct on this point - does raise questions like "Maybe we could get out of this clusterfuck after all?" and so on but not with BJ in control obviously.
john eden
male pale and stale
I think it depends on the context. In my experience when you talk to people about the state of their hospital or their estate being privatised or whatever they are generally interested in the things that directly affect them. They are mainly less interested in elevating the conversation to a discussion about local government funding. It is quite rare to then develop the conversation into the turn to neoliberalism in the 1970s or the tendency of the rate of profit to fall.
My suspicion is that if you start off by berating people about their life choices they are less likely to listen to you. I could be wrong about this but I am unwilling to test it out. The general tone of debate on Twitter seems to support this thesis though.
Well, their hospital won't improve and their estates will keep being privatised until they take an interest in those things, so how do you get them to?
And yeah, probably, but is Twitter representative of real life? Sounds as though you're assuming every remainer is some caricature of a Guardian journalist.
john eden
male pale and stale
Well they are interested in those things, is my point. So that is the best place to start. But if, for example you complicated this conversation by bringing in trans issues or abortion or smoking or Brexit or whatever they would probably be less interested. Mainly.
Twitter is and is not representative of real life.
Twitter is and is not representative of real life.
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
I agree that it it's 'important', but it's also irrelevant because it's never going to happen for as long as millions of voters are happy to eat shit off a spoon and swear it's Nutella because Saint Boris delivered their Holy Brexit.
And that's not going to change without them admitting to themselves, at best, "I was had for a sucker by billionaires who despise me", or at worst, "I wilfully allowed myself to be swept up in a mad racist cult."
And those are not easy things to admit to yourself.
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Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
Well do you think they were right? (Rhetorical question - obviously you don't think they were right, because you're an intelligent and well-informed person.) So I assume you think they were wrong. But then how are you any different from all those awful smug liberal Remoaners who think Leavers just need to be told, in no uncertain terms, how wrong they are?
An alternative formulation of the problem might say that many Leave voters were under no illusion that their lives would get any better, and may even have accepted from the start that they would suffer a decline in living standards, as long as immigrants suffered more than they did, and as long as it pissed off people who've been to university and read The Guardian.
I think one of the reasons this country keeps having Tory governments is that a large number of voters are happy to be slapped in the face if it means they can watch someone else get kicked in the bollocks. You could see this is the popular support for austerity before anyone had heard of Brexit.
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
Shush, you.
luka
Well-known member
I up the bum
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
Thank you for this useful post.
john eden
male pale and stale
I don’t think so no. Farage would love to make everything about Brexit forever. He has little to say about anything else. If we move the conversation into other areas he becomes less relevant. You’re left with mental UKIP types who want to bring back smoking in workplaces or ban gay marriage or whatever.
Labour’s unconvincing position on Brexit is precisely what led to their defeat by the Tories in the red wall constituencies.
But there will be people who voted leave for who Brexit and the EU is no longer (or never was) central to their identities. And there will be dyed in the wool leavers who may want to get involved with struggles against impoverishment or whatever.
john eden
male pale and stale
Well if the vast majority of people in this country are weird sadists then obviously organising for progressive politics is very hard and organising for fascism is very easy.
But I‘m not sure that is true, or that if it is true that this is some genetic quirk rather than a learned behaviour.
Whether it’s true or not, I don’t think this really alters my position. Because people lashing out at the establishment is understandable even if they have expressed it badly. I think we need to wrestle that anti-establishment impulse away from stock-brokers like Farage and deploy it in different ways. The only way to do that is by building bridges with people, by orientating our politics around our shared needs and what we have in common.