Benny Bunter

Well-known member
fool (n.2)

type of custard dish, 1590s, of uncertain origin. The food also was called trifle, which may be the source of the name (via verb and noun senses of fool).
 

Benny Bunter

Well-known member
A fool is an English dessert. Traditionally, fruit fool is made by folding puréed stewed fruit (classically gooseberries) into sweet custard


The reason the word "fool" is used for this fruit dessert is unclear. Several authors believe it derives from the French verb fouler meaning "to crush" or "to press" (in the context of pressing grapes for wine).

piste (n.)​

also pist, "beaten track of a horse or other animal," 1727, from French piste, from Latin pista (via) "beaten (track)," from pistus, past participle of pinsere "to pound, stamp"
 
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Benny Bunter

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mulberry (n.)​

The Latin word probably is from Greek moron "mulberry,"

moron (n.)​

1910, medical Latin, "one of the highest class of feeble-minded persons," from Greek (Attic) mōron, neuter of mōros "foolish, dull, sluggish, stupid," a word of uncertain origin.
 
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Benny Bunter

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foolhardy

Once established, mulberry trees need very little maintenance – they are hardy, robust, slow-growing trees that can live for hundreds of years. They often make wide, lop-sided specimens over time, but that's all part of their charm.
 

Benny Bunter

Well-known member

mulatto (n.)​

1590s, "one who is the offspring of a European and a black African," from Spanish or Portuguese mulato "of mixed breed," literally "young mule," from mulo "mule," from Latin mulus (fem. mula) "mule" (see mule (n.1)); possibly in reference to hybrid origin of mules (compare Greek hēmi-onos "a mule," literally "a half-ass;"

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Properly, the offspring of a he-ass and a mare; that of a she-ass and a stallion is technically a hinny. The males are ordinarily incapable of procreation. Used allusively of hybrids and things of mixed nature. Meaning "obstinate, stupid, or stubborn person" is from 1470s; the sense of "stupid" seems to have been older, that of "stubborn" is by 18c.
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Morus classification is even further complicated by widespread hybridisation, wherein the hybrids are fertile.
 

Benny Bunter

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Eristic probably refers to the greek goddess and personification of strife and discord, but I can't see the connection.

And that's about all I've got for now.
 

Benny Bunter

Well-known member
this is a poem by prynne on prunes and their laxative effect.
i worked out some of what he is doing by using the etymological dictionary
pru/run/rune/prune

Pruning is a horticultural and silvicultural practice involving the selective removal of certain parts of a plant, such as branches, buds, or roots. The practice entails targeted removal of diseased, damaged, dead, non-productive, structurally unsound, or otherwise unwanted tissue from crop and landscape plants.

and suggesting a common root with prudent, propro- word-forming element meaning "forward, forth, toward the front" (as in proclaim, proceed); "beforehand, in advance" (prohibit, provide); "taking care of" (procure); "in place of, on behalf of" (proconsul, pronoun); from Latin pro (adv., prep.) "on behalf of, in place of, before, for, in exchange for, just as," which also was used as a first element in compounds and had a collateral form por-.

rune (n.) Old English run, rune "secret, mystery, dark mysterious statement


the runs-rune
 

Benny Bunter

Well-known member
A fool is an English dessert. Traditionally, fruit fool is made by folding puréed stewed fruit (classically gooseberries) into sweet custard


The reason the word "fool" is used for this fruit dessert is unclear. Several authors believe it derives from the French verb fouler meaning "to crush" or "to press" (in the context of pressing grapes for wine).

piste (n.)​

also pist, "beaten track of a horse or other animal," 1727, from French piste, from Latin pista (via) "beaten (track)," from pistus, past participle of pinsere "to pound, stamp"


mull (v.1)​

"ponder, turn over in one's mind," 1873, perhaps from a figurative use of mull (v.) "grind to powder" (which survived into 19c. in dialect), from Middle English mullyn, mollen "grind to powder, soften by pulverizing," also "to fondle or pet" (late 14c.), from Old French moillier and directly from Medieval Latin molliare, mulliare, from Latin molere "to grind," from PIE root *mele- "to crush, grind."
 

Benny Bunter

Well-known member
FIG

to care not ignore or yet illustrate
punish for produce supported
more finite, grant fragrant or
seed core roll endure meant to
figure out right, dutiful if
gifted aware in share alight

‐------------------------------------------------------

I made some notes on this poem from Orchard:

FIG - sound fragments from the title

Fig/figure/finite
Ignore
Fragrant/
If/Gifted (fig reversed)

Line 5 - fi...if

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RHYMES
Ignore/core/or/or
Finite/right/alight
Care/Aware/share
Endure/figure
Grant/fragrant/meant

---------------------------------

WORD ASSOCIATIONS/PATTERNS etc...

Dutiful/care/right - duty of care, morality
Granted/Gifted/share
Gifted...alight
suggests 'delight' maybe

Fig/Fragrant/meant - suggests 'figment' and 'fragment'
punish/meant - suggests 'punishment' (link to endure)

Ignore/fragrant suggests 'ignorant', (negation of enlightenment/illustrate)

Illustrate/aware/a light/figure out -
shedding light, understanding, clarity

Supported/endure - 'putting up' with something

Line 2 - P sounds:
Punish for produce supported

Roll - fig roll (the famous pastry, lol)

Aware - a ware - produce that you might sell, such as fruit
Alight - to lighten, links to enlightenment/illustration (see below)

Care/or/core
Out/in
Out right/
outright
Figure out

and the most obvious one:
"Not give a fig" to not care. Ignore.

Endure
versus finite

-----------------------------------------------------
ETYMOLOGY/DICTIONARY EVIDENCE With key words highlighted:

ENDURE
late 14c., "to undergo or suffer" (especially without breaking); also "to continue in existence," from Old French endurer (12c.) "make hard, harden; bear, tolerate; keep up, maintain," from Latin indurare "make hard," in Late Latin "harden (the heart) against," from in- (from PIE root *en "in") + durare "to harden," from durus "hard," from PIE *dru-ro-, suffixed variant form of root *deru- "be firm, solid, steadfast."

deru-
also *dreu-, Proto-Indo-European root meaning "be firm, solid, steadfast," with specialized senses "wood," "tree" and derivatives referring to objects made of wood.It forms all or part of: betroth; Dante; dendrite; dendro-; dendrochronology; dour; Druid; drupe; dryad; dura mater; durable; durance; duration; duress; during; durum; endure; hamadryad; indurate; obdurate; perdurable; philodendron; rhododendron; shelter; tar (n.1) "viscous liquid;" tray; tree; trig (adj.) "smart, trim;" trim; troth; trough; trow; truce; true; trust; truth; tryst.

SUPPORT
late 14c., supporten, "to hold up, prop up, bear the weight of;" also "to aid" someone, "speak in support or advocacy of;" also "put up with, bear without opposition, endure without being overcome, tolerate," from Old French suporter "to bear, endure, sustain, support"

ILLUSTRATE
1520s, "light up, shed light on;" 1610s, "educate by means of examples," back-formation from illustration, and in some cases from Latin illustratus, past participle of illustrare "light up, make light, illuminate."

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MYTHOLOGY/CULTURE/RELIGION

The fig tree is associated with enlightenment in Babylonian mythology

Buddhism

Buddha attained enlightenment (bodhi) after meditating underneath a Ficus religiosa, known as the bodhi tree, for seven weeks (49 days) around 500 BCE. The site of enlightenment is in present-day Bodh Gaya and its bodhi tree has been replaced several times.[61]

The fig tree was possibly the tree of knowledge in bible.

The biblical quote "each man under his own vine and fig tree" (Micah 4:4) has been used to denote peace and prosperity.

------------------------------
THEMES?

I think there's evidence of a moral/spiritual dimension to the poem thematically, with Prynne's characteristic contradictions and negations- to do with moral responsibilities, obligations and duty, trust, care, sharing, punishment, endurance, knowledge, awareness, enlightenment/ignorance...
 

Benny Bunter

Well-known member
Just a few little notes, there's loads more to explore just in this one little poem (didn't even get into all the connotations of 'figure' and 'seed', for example, which must go very deep) but I'm quite pleased with that. I like this Orchard book a lot.
 

Benny Bunter

Well-known member
Amazing how he uses that word 'meant' to modify other words scattered around the poem as the '-ment' or '-ant' suffix. It rhymes with 'fragrant' and 'grant', but then it generates so many other words that aren't actually in the poem itself, but suggests them - punishment, figment, fragment, ignorant, enlightenment.

Also: 'endure' 'alight' 'meant' - enlightenment 🤯

I keep on discovering these little connections with the prefixes and suffixes. He uses them to compress the poems and create a word web within them, or the meanings are vertically stacked up rather than strung out horizontally along the lines. He's got a lot in common with Celan in this respect.
 

Benny Bunter

Well-known member
which leads you to the key word, which isn't actually there in the poem

dung (n.)
I'm convinced now that 'enlightenment' is the keyword in the fig poem, also not actually in the poem itself, like 'dung' in the prune one.
I'd be interested to find out if this is a feature of all the poems in Orchard. The title of the book itself certainly points to that - the roots of many different trees planted in the same soil, which aren't visible and you have to dig down to get to.
 

Benny Bunter

Well-known member
Might do Damson next. Look at the first line, and you already have rich associations in the title and the first five monosyllabic words:

"hold up close down first-born"

hold up -
like a dam holds up water

Up/down - typical Prynne opposites

Up close
Close down
Hold close
Hold down
Hold up -
typical Prynne overlapping phrasal verbs

first-born - first-born son
 
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