luka

Well-known member
Crown

The hours are taken slowly out of the
city and its upturned faces - a rising fountain
quite slim and unflowering as it
is drawn off. The arrangements of work
swell obscurely around the base of the
Interior Mountain, in the pale house with
its parody of stairs. The air is cold; a
pale sunlight is nothing within the con-
strictions of trust in the throat, in
the market-place. Or the silver police
station, the golden shops, all holy in this
place where the sound of false shouts too
much does reconcile the face and hands.
Yet the feet tread about in the dust, cash slides
and crashes into the registers, the slopes
rise unseen with the week and can still
burn a man up. Each face a purging
of venom, an absent coin, oh why as the
hours pass and are drawn off do the
shoulders break, down to their possessions,
when at moments and for days the city
is achieved at a glance - inwards, across
the Interior Mountain with its cliffs
pale under frost. And the question rises
like helium in its lightness, not held down
by any hands, followed by the faces dis-
owned by the shoes and overcoat settling in
behind the wheel and pulling the door shut.

Thus the soul's discursive fire
veers with the wind; the love
of any man is turned
by the mere and cunning front:

No hand then but to coin, no
face further than
needs be, the sounds fall
quickly into the gutters:

And from this the waters thin into their
ascendent vapour, the pillar of cloud; it
stands over the afternoon, already half-
dark. No one is fearful, I see them all
stop to look into the sky and my famished
avowels cast the final petals. It is the
Arabian flower of the century, the question
returned upon itself; the action of month and
hour is warm with cinnamon & clear water,
the first slopes gently at our feet.
 

luka

Well-known member
"It was pharmacology I invaded, together with plant hormone systemics: what price mere negative dialectics when necro-hormones can take you right through the reverse quotient" letter to Ed Dorn.
 

william_kent

Well-known member
I was reading about "underground chemists" last night, about how the famed "orange sunshine" acid was, according to the defence in court, not LSD but an analogue, ALD-52, and it made me think that Prynne is creating analogues of poetry, substituting words in new orders, like an underground chemist would substitute atoms, groups, or substructures to a produce a new and novel "research chemical"

1644580392816.png

and sometimes the results can be unpredictable and shock the nervous system like:

1644580716711.png

( image above lifted from Phenethylamines I have feared and loathed )
 

version

Well-known member
There's a real horror story about someone who'd taken Bromo-DragonFLY,

His lung collapsed, his heart stopped twice, and his mother was told that in the unlikely event her son survived, he could be left with permanent brain damage...

The teenager became convinced he was surrounded by a swarm of bees, and began swatting at the air.
As he did, he fell into brambles and nettles, but continued to fight.

"I've got scars all over my arms, my stomach and my face from the brambles, some of them are really quite deep."

As his friends tried to help, Justin started convulsing, and then stopped breathing, before having another fit.

"I threw up and then inhaled the contents of my stomach, and my lung collapsed," he said.

 

Benny Bunter

Well-known member
I think what he's talking about in A Note on Metal is value ceasing to be based on the inherent qualities of a given material. A coin's value doesn't come from its properties as a piece of metal and you don't fashion a coin into anything else. That's why he goes from stone (history) to metal (theory). It's a process of abstraction. History deals with the material, theory breaks from it. Quality is no longer essential.
I think he's also saying magical properties are bound up in substance, so if you're dealing with something based on its quality, e.g. alchemy, those properties survive the process because the process is reliant on that quality. Once you're dealing with something based on a non-material value you're effectively splitting it in two.

Great posts.

You can see why he decided to include the essay in the poems collection, so much of it crops up in the early poems - numbers, quality, presence, property, substance, place/displace, transfer, magic, shift, turn, metal, stone...

Now I've finished the White Stones and Note on metal I'm quite tempted to go back to the start and read them all again before forging ahead while I've still got all these ideas swimming around my head.

How Many There Are: A Letter is still in this mode ("Magic is the presence of form without number") but I'm guessing he more or less abandons all this stuff in the books following White Stones, does he?

How are you reading the book so far, @william_kent ? Are you just dipping in at random or reading them in order from the beginning?
 

Benny Bunter

Well-known member
The last paragraph of notes on metal is interesting where he's saying that none of this process of abstraction/loss of magic is natural or inevitable, or "direct" (pointing to the North American Indians who he says didn't really develop metallurgy) and admits that while we can trace all these twists and turns through history, nobody has ever come near to answering the big question: why?
 

william_kent

Well-known member
How are you reading the book so far, @william_kent ? Are you just dipping in at random or reading them in order from the beginning?

with the Poems ( 2nd ed ) I'm doing the start from the beginning, read until the end thing, like it's a novel, but around about "The Glacial Question, Unsolved" I realised that I need ( not want) more , and... I ended up buying some of the post 2015 stuff ( "it's an investment" ) and spent days reading "None Yet More Willing Told" (40 pages. Thirty-three poems. Risograph printed on acid-free recycled paper [...] Hand-sewn into neon red-orange wrappers, under a translucent mitsumata paper dust jacket, risograph printed in red and gold. Cloudy blue endpapers. Edition of 250 copies. ) over and over again, utilising the"Mark E. Smith" diction method (©️ @Benny B ), like imagine MES barking out lines like:

gilded pitch known crew

yeah, shout out to the scansion massive...
 

luka

Well-known member
if you are on facebook this is the fanclub. me and a lithuanian and a lad called Sam are the only one who talk there
we could use some moral support
 

william_kent

Well-known member
but, seriously, my bookmark is positioned at "The Glacial Question, Unsolved", and I am in two minds.. do I reset, and begin again and restart from "The Numbers', which is what I really want to do, or do I persist with whatever awaits me in "The White Stones"? I feel like I need to reread "Kitchen Poems" to form some sort of foundation to build an understanding of wtf is going on
 

luka

Well-known member
the questions you will end up with i guess are what is quality, what is snow, what is the plain/steppe/champaign, what is the rim/margin, what is the coast
 

luka

Well-known member
my friend has. i think she put tenner in an envelope or something. just email the man and ask him. Rod Mengham.
 

luka

Well-known member
Mizar is a second-magnitude star in the handle of the Big Dipper asterism in the constellation of Ursa Major
 

Benny Bunter

Well-known member
More intrigue:

Not investigated this properly yet but the title of the poem The Five Hindrances by Prynne appears to be a direct quote from this Charles Olson poem (one I really liked from the Donald Allen anthology and puzzled over at the time)


Also, the number 5, along with 3, crops up in How Many There Are: A Letter by Prynne, and might be connected.

"There are five, the air is moist around the just visible moon"

"Three is the means of survival, five is the consort"

"..finding the five steps of my entire life"

:unsure:
 
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