being intimately involved with the UK left
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
Funny how you're one of the forum's foremost feminists, but only when it's useful as a way to attack a certain very specific minority. 🤔
I think he's watched too much sissification porn and doesn't know how to square this with being a strong hetero man who can't even drink a pint of lager in 45 mins. hence his repeated ham-fisted attempts to troll with constructed interlocutors in the true Rimbaudian mould. 'I am someone else!'
shakahislop
Well-known member
i've never had therapy but pretty much everyone in the US above a certain level of income seems to. probably that's common knowledge. it's a very therapised culture as a result. not surprised that the language that US therapists are presumably trained in has spilled out into how people talk about everyday life. every now and then i end up in conversations where i basically don't understand what we're talking about because there's a key piece of vocabulary that I don't know.
i think that on a large scale something is happening to language; specifically something is going on where language meets the internet. some of these words, like the therapy speak, feel vague but have a fake preciseness to them. its medicalised terminology too. everything about what it's like to be human explained through a kind of medical terminology.
generally it is one thing i like about the US though, that a comparatively large proportion of the population have some kind of insight into their own emotions
versh
Well-known member
It's a status symbol over there then?
I get the impression some Americans view it the way some South Koreans allegedly view cosmetic surgery, that it's a sign of arrogance or some sort of moral failing if you aren't doing it because, in their eyes, you're implying you have nothing to 'work on'.
Seen discussions online around women asking whether a guy's in therapy and it being a 'red flag' if they aren't.
versh
Well-known member
Yeah, this is a good description. I often get the sense someone chucking out this therapy stuff to explain their thoughts and behaviour may not even believe it themselves, but they've picked up on these templates that they've seen others deploy and are going through the motions, e.g. a woman with a string of horrible boyfriends might start claiming she has 'daddy issues' without really feeling that that's actually the case. It's just a narrative that sounds sort of right and which other people will recognise.
shakahislop
Well-known member
i don't know actually. you're right there there's some kind of signification going on, probably something to do with showing that you are a stable human being and not a total psycho. i've never heard of anyone using it to show that they're rich, but i dunno.
versh
Well-known member
Yeah, I don't mean in the same sense as buying a flash car, but it's a class signifier. The done thing within that milieu. You go to work, you go to the gym, you go to therapy, you go to a gallery opening, etc. I imagine it becomes a topic of conversation too. You talk about progress you've made and show your peers how you're improving.
versh
Well-known member
The 'conceptronica' stuff Simon wrote about a few years back slots into the broader picture we're painting re: language and professionalism.
"Fluent in the critical lingua franca used in art institutions and academia worldwide, conceptronic artists know how to self-curate: They can present projects in terms that translate smoothly into proposals and funding applications."
pitchfork.com
"Fluent in the critical lingua franca used in art institutions and academia worldwide, conceptronic artists know how to self-curate: They can present projects in terms that translate smoothly into proposals and funding applications."
The Rise of Conceptronica
Why so much electronic music this decade felt like it belonged in a museum instead of a club
Conceptronica
What Simon Reynolds calls a scab class of grant vultures. https://pitchfork.com/features/article/2010s-rise-of-conceptronica-electronic-music/
www.dissensus.com
Clinamenic
Binary & Tweed
From my perspective, therapy still has a bit of a residual stigma, given this American mythos of everyone being able to handle everything themselves, but at least in liberal circles this stigma seems to have largely diminished as part of this trend of wellness and mental health awareness. That is, I don’t get the sense that people view it as a status thing, but some liberals/bohemians may view someone not getting therapy as a refusal to confront whatever psychological difficulties they have - I just wouldn’t go as far as to call it a status thing, don’t think it’s that pronounced.
shakahislop
Well-known member
saw this advertised at moma earlier todayThe 'conceptronica' stuff Simon wrote about a few years back slots into the broader picture we're painting re: language and professionalism.
"Fluent in the critical lingua franca used in art institutions and academia worldwide, conceptronic artists know how to self-curate: They can present projects in terms that translate smoothly into proposals and funding applications."
The Rise of Conceptronica
Why so much electronic music this decade felt like it belonged in a museum instead of a club
Conceptronica
What Simon Reynolds calls a scab class of grant vultures. https://pitchfork.com/features/article/2010s-rise-of-conceptronica-electronic-music/www.dissensus.com
Sarah Davachi's Long Gradus | MoMA
The inaugural presentation of Studio Sound features Suzanne Ciani and Sarah Davachi—two composers of different generations working with innovative music technologies. As part of Studio Sound, Davachi will perform Long Gradus live in MoMA’s Kravis Studio. Sarah Davachi is a Canadian experimental...
versh
Well-known member
It does cost money though, right? It's not something everyone can afford. Also, it sounds like a status symbol in the sense of demonstrating you're on the path to becoming a 'better person' and that being on that path positions you above the people who aren't.
Clinamenic
Binary & Tweed
Yeah not something everyone can afford, or something everyone would even realize the value in, but I just haven't experienced people leveraging it as a status signifier. I think mature people recognize the self-awareness required for one to admit that they need psychological help (assuming they can afford it), but I also suspect this maturity separates these people from those who would tend to leverage such stuff as vacuous status indicators, you know?
I definitely think it does indicate maturity, and a sort of courage to work on yourself, with or without the help of others, and people who appreciate this sort of maturity may consider it a good characteristic in others, but I generally don't think this tends to happen in a statusy/competitive way. Although I'm sure some people do. Anyway, I'm just saying what I've experienced. Therapy definitely seems more normalized now than I'd imagine it was a couple decades ago.
Clinamenic
Binary & Tweed
I just don't think its in the same realm of status indicators as the stuff people would brag about on social media. You'd need to find yourself in a pretty niche circle of insecure bohemians for bragging about therapy to be a thing, I'd imagine.
Clinamenic
Binary & Tweed
It almost sounds like a schtick from Curb Your Enthusiasm. Like if Larry and a friend both went to the same therapist, and they competitively compared feedback they got, to see who is better at bettering themselves.
Clinamenic
Binary & Tweed
But if you're arguing that, even if it isn't boasted about or otherwise socially leveraged, it could still be seen as a proxy for material success, just insofar as its something not everyone can afford, then yeah sure.
Clinamenic
Binary & Tweed
Actually I'd be surprised if there isn't an episode with a premise like this, what with that show having so many seasons already.
versh
Well-known member
Yeah, there's a stereotype of neurotic Jews that that would fit in with too. Woody Allen talking about visiting his analyst.
ghost
Well-known member
Therapy as status tic is real, and I think it's mostly tied to a certain kind of milleu—upper class, neurotic, and very young. There's a sort of code to being faux-vulnerable as a way to establish being "real"—like a youth pastor who really wants everyone to know how much of a sinner he was.
The key is that one can only be vulnerable about things they're not genuinely vulnerable about; there's a sort of need to be blasè about horrible things; this all acts as a testament to legitimacy, which of course connects us back to how therapy as clout is a deep descendent of identity politics as status game.
(If this all sounds implausible and possibly comic—someone I met at a party a year or two back was later revealed to be a race faker—this person had spent seven years pretending to be half japanese, which raised interesting ontological questions about their concurrent claim to be nonbinary.)
The key is that one can only be vulnerable about things they're not genuinely vulnerable about; there's a sort of need to be blasè about horrible things; this all acts as a testament to legitimacy, which of course connects us back to how therapy as clout is a deep descendent of identity politics as status game.
(If this all sounds implausible and possibly comic—someone I met at a party a year or two back was later revealed to be a race faker—this person had spent seven years pretending to be half japanese, which raised interesting ontological questions about their concurrent claim to be nonbinary.)
line b
Well-known member
Its not too hard to find a sliding scale therapist. Id say its pretty accesible if its something youre interested in. And its very much a 'status symbol' in the box checking way you described. Its part of the correct way to be a modern individual. But i think for most its not so cynical as you described. I think people are just excited to be participating in a milleu, without feelings of superiority being so integral, though not that it isnt completely out of the equation