GRIME- breaking news, gossip, slander, lies etc

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viktorvaughn

Well-known member
tom pr said:
See, I want to like Rules and Regulations; it's full of undisputably good songs, but it just doesn't excite me in the same way previous Roll Deep stuff does. And I think you just hit the nail on the head as to why. One of the things I love most about grime (and MCing in general, but there aren't so many hiphop MCs that go on like that now) is when you get sustained periods of rapping, where it just feels like you'd have to physically tear the MC away from the mic to get them to stop. Like they just can't stop themselves. Obviously you get that vibe on radio, but also Wiley on Nightbus Dubplate or the Graveyard freestyle (I'm assuming that's the one you're on about, off Creeper 1) and Dizzee on something like Give You More. There's just nothing that exciting or unique on Rules and Regulations, it's all so structured and consise and restricted. Which isn't what grime should be about, I don't think.
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Yep agree 100%. It sounds restrained, which i don't think is a good look for grime.
 
MATT MAson

MATT MAson

BROADSIDE
All I've been saying all along is this track and a few others sound like a bit like hip hop records. and i don't think that's a great thing for grime. I haven't changed my tune on this.

Mistersloane - I agree with your point about it having a coldplay type vibe as well. That's the another reason I thought it sounded like hip hop - The big stadium sound Jay-Z and Eminem have been invoking for so long. Tinchy's flow on the track sorta reminds me of Jay-Z as well.

As you rightly point out Logan, by the very definition of popular opinion, any black male rapping on a beat is considered hip hop. So if grime is to define itself as something else, shouldn't it be deviating from the norms of commercial hip hop rather than conforming to them?
 
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Logan Sama

BestThereIsAtWhatIDo
Tactics said:
Logan man - you don't need titles to know that it apes a generic hip-pop/rnb format that has been shovelled out of the states for years. that's the point. if you want titles look at your station's playlist...what's out (I don't listen to daytime radio)? take 'pac's life' ft. ashanti, tracks like that

actually to settle it (can't believe this is happening) go and ask Poisonous Dart

the tinchy track is fine - just a hybrid - are you really gonna deny that? stupid question lol...

yeah RS like that soft metal 'epic' sound. so does Scorcher and The Movement. the guitar riffs and that. I do blame Dipset for this slightly (not tryna start another argument lol!)

anyone got any word on Nolay's mixcd? and is that Shotz 'Thunderbolt' tune gonna hit shelves anytime soon?

actually when are your mixcd's coming out Sama?
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Breakaway doesn't actually SOUND LIKE Pac's life though. This is my point. Lambasting someone for putting a girl on a chorus is one thing, but saying by doing that you are aping hip hop is asinine. Putting vocal hooks on a tune has been something which has been used by dance music since the dawn of time to make it more marketable.
 
T

Tactics

BBP!
okay Sama

Logan Sama said:
Breakaway doesn't actually SOUND LIKE Pac's life though. This is my point. Lambasting someone for putting a girl on a chorus is one thing, but saying by doing that you are aping hip hop is asinine. Putting vocal hooks on a tune has been something which has been used by dance music since the dawn of time to make it more marketable.
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I respectively give up - cool

MATT MAson said:
rightly point out Logan, by the very definition of popular opinion, any black male rapping on a beat is considered hip hop. So if grime is to define itself as something else, shouldn't it be deviating from the norms of commercial hip hop rather than conforming to them?
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this I don't agree with. you don't necessarily change just because of things like that otherwise you'll be constantly changing to suit ppl. and that goes for any and everything waaay beyond music
 
P

petergunn

plywood violin
Logan Sama said:
Breakaway doesn't actually SOUND LIKE Pac's life though. This is my point. Lambasting someone for putting a girl on a chorus is one thing, but saying by doing that you are aping hip hop is asinine. Putting vocal hooks on a tune has been something which has been used by dance music since the dawn of time to make it more marketable.
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i think it's just the FEEL people get off it...

i think the song is ok, the drum pattern is like the one in Gangsterz, which makes me like it, but yes, the soft rock instrumental melody and the semi-corny female hook is the same FORMULA and VIBE as ja rule/ashanti tracks (and has that whole R&b/hip hop feel that can prolly be traced back to Mary J. Blige and Biggie w/ "real love" ) put into a grime CONTEXT... i don't think there's a single thing wrong w/ songs like these is they are:

a) done well
b) the exception, rather than the rule



funny look from Mala in the grime article acting like grime and dubstep are TOTALLY different ("our records are 99% instrumentals" um, yeah and in 2003-4, so was grime...) considering he's had Skepta down there, hasn't he?
 
S

Sick Boy

All about pride and egos
petergunn said:
funny look from Mala in the grime article acting like grime and dubstep are TOTALLY different ("our records are 99% instrumentals" um, yeah and in 2003-4, so was grime...) considering he's had Skepta down there, hasn't he?
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I have boundless respect for Mala, but I really can't stand this sentiment. I think it's great that dubstep has its own raves and its own structures. Having it seperated in that way has allowed it to go and strengthen its sound by like 100x. Now it seems a lot of people are sort of pulling the anchor up on it now. Particularly when Mala says they don't have grime artists at DMZ because they like to promote positive vibes and "decent people."

But this has been said a million times before.

Also: Rules and Regulations is a badderman mixtape. I don't mind it has choruses. Roll Deep clearly wanted to go in this direction with In At The Deep End, but now have finally found a way to do it and not compromise the music or completely abandon its more underground sound.

I think they have achieved what they set out to do very well.
 
mos dan

mos dan

fact music
Sick Boy said:
I have boundless respect for Mala, but I really can't stand this sentiment. I think it's great that dubstep has its own raves and its own structures. Having it seperated in that way has allowed it to go and strengthen its sound by like 100x. Now it seems a lot of people are sort of pulling the anchor up on it now. Particularly when Mala says they don't have grime artists at DMZ because they like to promote positive vibes and "decent people."

But this has been said a million times before.
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This is why the dubstep scene can go fuck itself, as far as I'm (personally) concerned.
 
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Logan Sama

BestThereIsAtWhatIDo
I had the pleasure to play a gig in Belgium in 2005 with Skepta, Platician, Jammer, Virus Syndicate and Mala. While he seemed a bit stand-offish he also clearly had great passion and drive for his music. Playing a set at the end of the night as agreed we would all take it in turns to go back to back as an exiting crescendo to the evening's varied music, I got the vibe that he had absolutely no time for Grime even then. I don't like to judge people on implied nuances of their behaviour however, because I have been tarred by that very brush incorrectly in the past.

But there was also that time I asked Coki for some tunes that were getting played by the entire dubstep scene on dub and he said Mala said no for whatever reason.

If he wants to distance himself and dubstep from the Grime scene then it is entirely his perogative, and I have utmost respect for the work they have put in crafting that scene and niche and how wide the movement has spread past the Ammunition dictat.

But that was a backhanded insult wasn't it? And not even a well informed one either.
 
R

ramadanman

Well-known member
Regarding grime MCs @ DMZ, obviously i can't speak for mala and that lot, but i imagine it's cos there's more of a focus on the DJ @ Mass. Because of the small DJ booth area, the MC can hardly be seen, whether it's Pokes, Crazy or spaceape. I think there would be a lack of connection between the MC and the audience, which doesn't hugely affect the 'dubstep mcs' but i could imagine it affecting grime MCs. Anyhow, it is their rave, and if Mala isn't really feeling grime then he's not going to book grime artists.

Interesting though Logan about you not being able to get hands on those coki tunes...didn't realise that was happening
 
U

UFO over easy

online mahjong
ramadanman said:
Because of the small DJ booth area, the MC can hardly be seen, whether it's Pokes, Crazy or spaceape. I think there would be a lack of connection between the MC and the audience, which doesn't hugely affect the 'dubstep mcs' but i could imagine it affecting grime MCs.
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When Skepta goes to FWD>> it's live, and you can't see anything in plastic people :D

Seems to me DMZ don't book grime MCs because they don't like them - and it's their night, they can do whatever they like. They have their own tastes in music, just like everyone else.. it just happens that when you're famous and in a position of power, your choices have wider reaching consequences. But that doesn't mean DMZ should book Roll Deep or whoever just to avoid alienating the grime scene if it's not the direction they want to pursue musically. And if you listen to Mala's beats chronologically they start to have less and less in common sonically with grime..
 
S

Sick Boy

All about pride and egos
It is a shame people go so purist, but it is ultimately up to them. I like that there is both FWD>> and DMZ in London representing the two different attitudes towards the sound.

Mala refusing to give grime DJs dubs though is a little ridiculous. Particularly when you consider that Coki tunes make disgusting riddims for grime MCs. Coki, in my opinion, is both one of the best dubstep AND grime producers around right now.

Sgt. Pokes frequently expresses on the dubstep forum his hostility towards grime and his total lack of desire to have the scenes eclipse as well. Personally I think if grime MCs were "allowed" to MC dubstep sets, Sgt. Pokes would be out of a job.
 
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mos dan

mos dan

fact music
Sick Boy said:
(1) Sgt. Pokes frequently expresses on the dubstep forum his hostility towards grime and his total lack of desire to have the scenes eclipse as well.

(2) Personally I think if grime MCs were "allowed" to MC dubstep sets, Sgt. Pokes would be out of a job.
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It is basically illegal to suggest a connection between points (1) and (2), but I'm going to anyway.

Mala can talk about his dance however he wants, but he doesn't speak for everyone making the music. Try telling Plastician grime people aren't 'decent': they're his goddamn mates, mate.

The only way that FWD and DMZ differ in their attitudes is that Ammunition put 'grime' on their flyers, and have a token quasi-grimey set from Tubby or Plastic now and then. FWD has long since stopped defining anything other than the Ammunition core.

Frankly I'm at a loss for what to go out to in London these days.
 
benjybars

benjybars

village elder.
Sick Boy said:
It is a shame people go so purist, but it is ultimately up to them. I like that there is both FWD>> and DMZ in London representing the two different attitudes towards the sound.

Mala refusing to give grime DJs dubs though is a little ridiculous. Particularly when you consider that Coki tunes make disgusting riddims for grime MCs. Coki, in my opinion, is both one of the best dubstep AND grime producers around right now.

Sgt. Pokes frequently expresses on the dubstep forum his hostility towards grime and his total lack of desire to have the scenes eclipse as well. Personally I think if grime MCs were "allowed" to MC dubstep sets, Sgt. Pokes would be out of a job.
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i would LOVE to see grime and dubstep merge more, but even if that did happen there is absolutely no way that pokes would be out of a job.. he's toooo good at what he does and is one of ther funniest guys to ever touch mic!

but yeah, that is a shame about Mala's apparent attittude to dubstep.. but what can you do? there's no reason at all he should HAVE to like grime and want to see it grow (would be nice if he did though, as his position in the dubstep scene could do a lot for grime if he wanted)


anyway, re Stryder.. seen him perform a few times in the last couple of months and i can properly see him getting as big as someone like Kano in the next year.. hope this happens and that it helps Ruff sqwad aswell.

finally, CSI: grimescene investigation would be HEAVY! i see wiley playing the detective.
 
S

Sick Boy

All about pride and egos
benjybars said:
anyway, re Stryder.. seen him perform a few times in the last couple of months and i can properly see him getting as big as someone like Kano in the next year.
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Can anybody debunk this once and for all?

Is Kano ACTUALLY big, or does he just make hip hop music? Dizzee is big: he sells lots of CDs, and he is able to play concerts all over the World.

Kano can't play concerts all over the World, and I'm not sure how many CDs he actually sold. Does it compare to Dizzee?

Kano's always seemed strange to me, because on one hand he abandoned the grime scene in this moving-onto-bigger-and-better-things way that Dizzee did, but on the other hand it doesn't seem like he's anywhere bigger and better at all.

Logan?
 
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Logan Sama

BestThereIsAtWhatIDo
I consider Kano a successful artist. I wouldn't say he is a worldwide act. Dizzee is just about. Dizzee has outsold Kano by a long way as well.

But Kano is successful. He outsold everyone else but Dizzee.
 
M

mistersloane

heavy heavy monster sound
I don't go out to stuff and haven't done for years, but it just seems to me that the grime people, the dubstep people and the minimal people need their heads knocking together for not having a fuckin peace pow wow and getting together and making some fucking money for everyone.
 
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