Dubstep

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UFO over easy

online mahjong
with dilla's beats even at their weirdest and most lilting they were normally a framework, built around the core of the track, the vocal or something, and when he was at his best they fit perfectly within that context. They were fucked and skewed a lot of the time but they didn't often feel self consciously wonky or anything. They just were what they were. if you know what I mean :eek:
 
optimum

optimum

Poochie
UFO over easy said:
with dilla's beats even at their weirdest and most lilting they were normally a framework, built around the core of the track, the vocal or something, and when he was at his best they fit perfectly within that context. They were fucked and skewed a lot of the time but they didn't often feel self consciously wonky or anything. They just were what they were. if you know what I mean :eek:
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Yes def know what you're on about. A lot of this 'post-bump', post-Dilla stuff is quite laboured. From what I've heard, Dilla used to make a lot of beats 'live', as in programming or 'playing' his drums into the MPC and not bothering with the quantize function afterwards. And this applied to the whole tune rather than say, 16 bar sections, so he 'played live' for four minutes or so.
 
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UFO over easy

online mahjong
maybe that's the key.. when everything is off by the same amount every loop it makes me feel seasick :D

I do like a lot of this stuff though having said all this, and I can see a lot of people being really into for exactly the same reasons why I've been saying I don't like some of it.. and I enjoyed what kode was playing at fwd. Never heard anything like it on a system that even comes close to Plastic People before
 
E

elgato

I just dont know
UFO over easy said:
I do like a lot of this stuff though having said all this, and I can see a lot of people being really into for exactly the same reasons why I've been saying I don't like some of it..
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yeh for sure. for me, this stuff definitely isn't J Dilla, in a strange way i think he's maybe not even the most appropriate reference point.

i agree with what you say, i think its much more self-consciously 'wonky' and weird and 'Dilla' wheras with him i imagine it was more just what he thought was funky and/or banging (although i of course recognise the ridiculousness of me using thoughts such as these as any kind of basis for argument!). definitely none of this stuff bangs like Dilla, except maybe Rustie, its much more psychedelic than club. trip-hop for the next generation? i dunno. either way i think some of it is really sick, and the fringes (ppl like Kode9 for example) are moving in some very interesting directions
 
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joe narcossist

Active member
elgato said:
yeh for sure. for me, this stuff definitely isn't J Dilla, in a strange way i think he's maybe not even the most appropriate reference point.
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Was thinking just that this morninng when listening to Samiyam.

Its really quite similar to what Prefuse73 or the Spezial Materials bunch were doing (and might still be for all i know), same fucked aesthetic but with more groove and less glitches.
 
lazybones

lazybones

f, d , d+f , p.
the thing that worries me is this.... if wilfully wonky beats are the remedy to macho man wobble then i'm already looking for something more ... i just feel that besides lotus and dabrye..... this mohawk+rustie stuff is a bit inauthentic.... + already something of a formula.... pitchbent synths, nice organic sounding clap, quantize off ... presto. . .

i really agree with what ben said about mcs anchoring the tune down in dilla or dabrye's case say... i dunno im not that down with taking raw club music and turning it into ..... meh.


its quite interesting that minimal (as a genre) and dubstep (ditto) have gone to shit at roughly the same time , its quite exciting because it forces people to come up with interesting ideas and makes it harder for people to get away with making tripe. hate to call out names but i heard a "high rankin" tune the other day and puked... enuffs enough. then dubfire in minimal...... just cannot believe such things have occured. :mad::mad::rolleyes:


and it says so much that the best forward nghts i've been to recentley have barely been dubstep/machostep related; braiden/oneman/appleblim/karnage and martyn/kodes/mr ill have been such a delight.

also tho , to my ears some of the stuff kodes was playing was not that wonky, he was dropping electro type stuff (vague as hell i know) with very straight 2/4 snares.... and "normal" hip hop.... i just think, like any other "type" of music, small doses in a set are intresting , overkill is not... fun....
 
lazybones

lazybones

f, d , d+f , p.
just listened to more hudson mo.... and am so ....bored. its just cut up IDM hip hop , nothing original about it at all , at least rusty has really bold production and quite heavy rhythms wheras this guy has loads of trowaway glitch beats and "random" samples.... meh. so very meh.
i mean he even does the old snare roll with gradually ascending velocity. do you want a medal or a plaque for unoriginality mate?
 
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elgato

I just dont know
lazybones said:
the thing that worries me is this.... if wilfully wonky beats are the remedy to macho man wobble then i'm already looking for something more ... i just feel that besides lotus and dabrye..... this mohawk+rustie stuff is a bit inauthentic.... + already something of a formula.... pitchbent synths, nice organic sounding clap, quantize off ... presto. . .

i really agree with what ben said about mcs anchoring the tune down in dilla or dabrye's case say... i dunno im not that down with taking raw club music and turning it into ..... meh.

its quite interesting that minimal (as a genre) and dubstep (ditto) have gone to shit at roughly the same time , its quite exciting because it forces people to come up with interesting ideas and makes it harder for people to get away with making tripe. hate to call out names but i heard a "high rankin" tune the other day and puked... enuffs enough. then dubfire in minimal...... just cannot believe such things have occured. :mad::mad::rolleyes:

and it says so much that the best forward nghts i've been to recentley have barely been dubstep/machostep related; braiden/oneman/appleblim/karnage and martyn/kodes/mr ill have been such a delight.

also tho , to my ears some of the stuff kodes was playing was not that wonky, he was dropping electro type stuff (vague as hell i know) with very straight 2/4 snares.... and "normal" hip hop.... i just think, like any other "type" of music, small doses in a set are intresting , overkill is not... fun....
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i don't think this wonky stuff is the remedy, not even a remedy. to me its just a different sound, which can be taken or left.

what do you mean by inauthentic? what constitutes authenticity?

with regard to Kode's set I agree, a fair few of his productions were actually surprisingly rigid and electro-esque! which was surprising, but refreshing. it was the first half which i was talking about wrt wonky etc.

soon im never going to want to use the words wonky or dilla ever again
 
D

daddek

Well-known member
lazybones said:
just listened to more hudson mo.... and am so ....bored. its just cut up IDM hip hop , nothing original about it at all ..this guy has loads of trowaway glitch beats and "random" samples.... meh. so very meh.. do you want a medal or a plaque for unoriginality mate?
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Fucking hell.

Anyway.. good as it can be.. Rustie, Various Prod, Quarta 330, Flying Lotus, Hudson Mo, Frequency 313 are the electronic extremity of the idea.

One could simply listen to Black Milk, Jay Dee, Guilty Simpson, Madlib, Madvillain, Dabrye etc instead.

In the context of actual vocal hip hop, these rhythms are wonderful.
 
M

mms

sometimes
daddek said:
Fucking hell.

Anyway.. good as it can be.. Rustie, Various Prod, Quarta 330, Flying Lotus, Hudson Mo, Frequency 313 are the electronic extremity of the idea.

One could simply listen to Black Milk, Jay Dee, Guilty Simpson, Madlib, Madvillain, Dabrye etc instead.

In the context of actual vocal hip hop, these rhythms are wonderful.
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i'd add the new harmonic 313 project, shape of broad minds, gaslamp killer, oh no and paul white to that list, then step back a bit and you have sa-ra etc..
there are already too many people trying to do this imo and some are better than others, gonja sufi - a singer who is a gaslamp killer/lotus affiliation is the sort of singer hook for it all - i also think lotus is a pretty amazing performer live.
harmonic 313 looks promising too, kinda radiophonic hip hop.
 
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mms

sometimes
elgato said:
yeh for sure. for me, this stuff definitely isn't J Dilla, in a strange way i think he's maybe not even the most appropriate reference point.
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a kind of dr dre with all the futuristic bits kept in the p funk he sampled is closer i reckon.
 
D

daddek

Well-known member
mms said:
a kind of dr dre with all the futuristic bits kept in the p funk he sampled is closer i reckon.
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oop yeah i meant Harmonic 313. True that tune MAH played the other night was sick.

im no authority but i feel you can quite clearly find the birth points in certain Jay Dee and Madlib tunes.. sa ra and dudes picked up on it but im pretty jay and madlib were the first, no? the newer wave certainly took those ideas and ran with them.. and are taking more cues from one another now. I dont know.. running through itunes quickly.. these ones jump out..

Madvillain "Figaro", "Accordian" (flying lotus obv liked these ones lol)

Madlib "Third Ear" "Offbeat" "Chopstyle" "Sir Bang" "Eternal Broadcaster" "West Zone" "Friends"

Quasimoto "Greenery" "Hydrant Game"

Jaylib "Raw Addict" "Bounce"

Slum V "Things we do" "2u4u"

Dilla "Let's take it back" "Reckless driving" "the $" "Take Notice" "Shake It Down" "Ya'll Aint Ready" "BBE"

FrankNDank 48 Hours LP

anyway. Madlib's contribution is mad underrated in these discussions. Thing that strikes me is how both him and jay were so more diverse than that sound. Swing & synths were just something they fucked with when they needed to.
 
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straight

straight

wings cru
butting in with a bit of a topic change, anyone going kode9/skream at paradise factory on friday? once more a good night will be ruined by the fact loads of dunce high 'rhubarb and custard' contrast fines are downstairs but looking forward to seeing the venue (they've 2 function 1's!). also, said high contrast fans have bought all the tickets so im going to have to queue in the rain like a turd outside at half 9 to make sure i get in.
 
optimum

optimum

Poochie
UFO over easy said:
:D

has anyone mentioned jneiro jarel yet? badman
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Yes jarel can definately be viewed as part of the same thing. He even namechecks Madlib on 'Three Piece Puzzle'. Waajeed is another producer who can be included, especially his instrumental stuff.

I think one of the most important 'wonk' tracks can be traced back to Dilla's remix for DJ Cam:

Not sure when it came out tho
 
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