Since it's been a while since we had an Israel/Palestine thread...

[Mr. Tea]

Then why did you reply to this comment that was clearly referencing Western governments:

Utter destruction, funded, sponsored and supported by the same humanitarian interventionists who condemned Russia for their actions in Syria and Ukraine.

With such an idiotic and utterly fucking irrelevant response?

Because, as an ethical position, it's exactly as hypocritical as the one you were criticising. I mean it's simply the exact mirror image.

Of course fringe academics and alt-media journalists don't have the same real-world influence as presidents and prime ministers. I thought this was such an obvious point I didn't need to spell it out for you, but apparently I was wrong.

 

[droid]

Because, as an ethical position, it's exactly as hypocritical as the one you were criticising. I mean it's simply the exact mirror image.

Of course fringe academics and alt-media journalists don't have the same real-world influence as presidents and prime ministers. I thought this was such an obvious point I didn't need to spell it out for you, but apparently I was wrong.

Being exposed to the cretinous workings of your tiny mind is like watching the dimmest slime mould in the laboratory trying to find its way out of a maze.

 

[Mr. Tea]

So basically you're in a huff because I didn't say the thing you thought I'd said, or wanted me to have said.

The mighty droid takes another internet scalp!

 

[droid]

You're claiming that there is ethical or moral equivalence between private individuals who show a double standard in the condemnation of imperialism, and governments who are literally providing arms, diplomatic and material support to a regime that is openly committing genocide.

Its just so catastrophically moronic, its difficult to even comprehend, let alone argue against - and again we see the same methods you have been using to 'debate' for nearly 20 years. Saying something monumentally idiotic, doubling, then tripling down when challenged, and then crowing like a prideful toddler who's just covered himself in shit when people walk away out of sheer boredom, incredulity and disgust at your pathetic, tiresome nonsense.

 

[droid]

Well there's a surprise, no-one could have anticipated this.

 

[Mr. Tea]

You're claiming that there is ethical or moral equivalence between private individuals who show a double standard in the condemnation of imperialism, and governments who are literally providing arms, diplomatic and material support to a regime that is openly committing genocide.

Its just so catastrophically moronic, its difficult to even comprehend, let alone argue against - and again we see the same methods you have been using to 'debate' for nearly 20 years. Saying something monumentally idiotic, doubling, then tripling down when challenged, and then crowing like a prideful toddler who's just covered himself in shit when people walk away out of sheer boredom, incredulity and disgust at your pathetic, tiresome nonsense.

As moral positions, they are equally bad. In terms of real world consequences, they are obviously not the same. But your Finkelsteins would, if it were up to them, have Western governments abandon the Ukrainians to genocide, just as is currently happening to Palestinians in Gaza.

Have I explained it in terms simple enough for you to understand, or would a diagram help?

 

[droid]

Equally bad? So failing to condemn a murder is the same as handing guns and ammunition to a killer in the midst of a mass shooting, and then obstructing the police and hiding the evidence?

Precisely how fucked in the head are you? You've always been thick, but this is a new level of stupidity.

 

[Clinamenic]

I'm sure @mixed_biscuits has a graph illustrating how Tea's fucked-in-the-headness has developed over the last decade or so.

 

[mixed_biscuits]

I'm sure @mixed_biscuits has a graph illustrating how Tea's fucked-in-the-headness has developed over the last decade or so.

What I do have is a graph of droid's cumulative references to fecal matters and interest from psychoanalysts.

 

[shakahislop]

Two things I've read in the last five minutes on the humanitarian side of this.

Number one (from the unmentionable newspaper):

In separate comments, Unicef said it estimated that 17,000 children in Gaza were unaccompanied or had been separated from their families during the conflict, which began on 7 October after attacks by Hamas gunmen in southern Israel.

It said nearly all children in the strip were thought to require mental health support. “They present symptoms like extremely high levels of persistent anxiety, loss of appetite. They can’t sleep, they have emotional outbursts or they panic every time they hear a bombing,” said Jonathan Crickx, Unicef’s chief of communication for the occupied Palestinian Territories

“Before this war, Unicef was considering already that 500,000 children were in need of mental health and psychosocial support in Gaza,” Crickx added. “Today we estimate that almost all children are in need of that support – and that’s more than 1 million children.”

Number two (google translated from french):

The offices of Handicap International (shared with Enabel, the Belgian Development Agency) in Gaza were devastated by a bombing. No staff members were present during the attack. There is no reason to justify the destruction of humanitarian premises.

Since 1996, Handicap International has supported people with disabilities and vulnerable populations in Palestine. Our teams currently work in more than 100 shelters, providing mobility aids, recreational activities for children, and explosive ordnance risk education sessions. We remain determined to continue our humanitarian mission despite this tragedy.

 

[shakahislop]

Hard off the top of my head to think of a conflict since WWII which has produced an equivalent level of suffering for children. Probably there are some but not many.

 

[droid]

Yeah, and ofc the official casualty estimates are ridiculously low. On top of the 30,000 or so dead there's at least 70,000 missing, and I wouldn't be surprised if that's an underestimate. If they ever manage to disinter all the bodies and get even a semi-accurate count, there's gonna be a lot of people deleting the stuff they posted online about this.

 

[shakahislop]

it's an absolute and serious failure of our (UK and US) media environment that public pressure to stop the bombardment immediately isn't huge and relentless. the way this kind of reality is mediated isn't up to the task.

 

[WashYourHands]

huge wall of apathy blocks out ‘difficult subject’ discourse, said apathy both informs and is exploited by those at policy-level decision making

until it’s a popular holiday destination, vast majority in the west would be quite happy to see a broader regional war simply as a form of entertainment - “wait, let‘s get the beers in and watch them all kill each other” etc

 

[WashYourHands]

war voyeurism is rampant, every tabloid web porthole was a cocktail of dead Russian montages pre October

can’t remember a previous era where real life slaughter has become as easy to access, including everything to emerge out of Afghanistan, Iraq and Syria that friend of a friend who wasnt shy about emailing you a beheadings clip was all over

last aspect is more of a parental point admittedly - all our brood have had war footage in their browsing history, hence talking about kids living through actual nightmares and the lack of dignity participating in their suffering ….. @shakahislop same point reflected back from nippers thinking wtf is happening to other nippers

 

[version]

it's an absolute and serious failure of our (UK and US) media environment that public pressure to stop the bombardment immediately isn't huge and relentless. the way this kind of reality is mediated isn't up to the task.

Would it make a difference if it were? How many marched against Iraq?

 

[shakahislop]

Would it make a difference if it were? How many marched against Iraq?

yeah i think so. obviously geopolitics is what it is and the US and UK governments have long-held agendas and strategies etc. but there is ultimately an electoral calculus and electoral pressures that the leaders of both countries are finely attuned to.

 

[version]

yeah i think so. obviously geopolitics is what it is and the US and UK governments have long-held agendas and strategies etc. but there is ultimately an electoral calculus and electoral pressures that the leaders of both countries are finely attuned to.

You think Israel are gonna stop for anyone though? I get the impression not even the US are in a position to do anything, unless they're willing to do something drastic.

 

[droid]

Define 'drastic'? Even 50% of the sanction measures levied against Russia would devastate Israel, or Biden could just threaten to cut off arms supplies. Even the EU simply following its own rules on trade, exports and cooperation would be a major blow.

 

[version]

Define 'drastic'? Even 50% of the sanction measures levied against Russia would devastate Israel, or Biden could just threaten to cut off arms supplies. Even the EU simply following its own rules on trade, exports and cooperation would be a major blow.

Right, but evidently they're hesitant to do even that. Seems like anything that could genuinely hamper the Israeli war effort would be drastic on the part of the US and its allies.