Since it's been a while since we had an Israel/Palestine thread...

[thirdform]

There are literally surveys you can look up on people's opinions on all manner of events to show you that my views are generally quite middle-of-the-road for people in the UK. The joy of dissensus is interacting people with extreme views whom one doesn't find so easily in real life...I mean you'll get the odd one but not helpfully collected together like here. Not that everyone's like that, maybe a third of the site, but they are very sure of themselves despite that.

absolutely do not give a flying fucking shit about your views or the views of people in the UK (although your political friends will never consider you to be an authentic Brit so why the inferiority complex?) Even if your views are wrong, which they frequently are, they are constantly underdeveloped and exhibited in a state of intellectual retardation that nothing useful at all can be gleaned from them.

now piss off and do not engage with me again.

 

[mixed_biscuits]

Unlike you, I don't presume to have confected my own personal definition of genocide. I think the definition resulting from the Genocide Convention of 1948 does a pretty good job:

"acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group"

Well obviously that covers any inter-ethnic conflict, so when you're referring to Israeli genocide you're not saying it's especially bad.

But people seem to be using to mean Israel are being especially bad, implying my criteria. Only Hamas meets my criteria, not Israel.

 

[mixed_biscuits]

No, they have been denied by you, and other pro-genocide people like you, which is not the same thing as being debunked.

BTW, by your own personal definition of "genocide", even the Holocaust wasn't a genocide if a single extermination camp commander, on a single occasion, decided to knock off early on a Friday afternoon and therefore didn't kill quite as many Jews as he might have done.

There's no need to use genocide any more, because it pertains to every inter-ethnic conflict, and we know it's an inter-ethnic conflict.

 

[mixed_biscuits]

A term that puts the Holocaust on the level of part destruction of property is itself immoral as the former is orders of magnitude more serious than the latter. It is this conflation which leafs people to think that Hamas are on the level with Israel, but Hamas think of Jews as vermin to be eliminated completely - not the same as Israeli policy.

 

[Mr. Tea]

Well obviously that covers any inter-ethnic conflict, so when you're referring to Israeli genocide you're not saying it's especially bad.

But people seem to be using to mean Israel are being especially bad, implying my criteria. Only Hamas meets my criteria, not Israel.

Does the fact that Israel have killed about 40 times as many Palestinians as Hamas have killed Israelis, mostly civilians even by Israel's own admission, have no bearing on this at all?

And how do you justify this other than through sheer racism?

 

[Mr. Tea]

A term that puts the Holocaust on the level of part destruction of property is itself immoral as the former is orders of magnitude more serious than the latter. It is this conflation which leafs people to think that Hamas are on the level with Israel, but Hamas think of Jews as vermin to be eliminated completely - not the same as Israeli policy.

Israel thinks the same thing about Palestinians, and is being far more effective in putting those beliefs into practice. You are defending the deliberate murder of children.

‘Not a normal war’: doctors say children have been targeted by Israeli snipers in Gaza

IDF says it ‘completely rejects’ charge that its soldiers deliberately fired on any of the thousands of civilians killed in Israeli offensive

www.theguardian.com

 

[mixed_biscuits]

Chambers Dictionary 2003: 'Genocide: the deliberate extermination of a racial, national, religious or ethnic group'

THAT is the more widely accepted and used definition, which is why it's in the dictionary and it does distinguish between one type of inter-group conflict and another.

 

[Mr. Tea]

You know the concept of a 'fnord' from the Iluminatus! trilogy? I think Biccies has one of those around the phrase "Yes but you're excusing the side that's routinely and deliberately shooting children in the head."

 

[yyaldrin]

germany's minister of foreign affairs, annalena baerbock from the so called "left" green party. you can hear the spirit of her nazi wehrmacht grandfather when she raises her voice. she explains, genocide, that is what germany stands for, and the parlement applauds her.

 

[mixed_biscuits]

The Democrats are sending soldiers to help Israel against Iran. Obviously the Democrats are quite poor but they do not have a history of supporting genocide - you know, extermination genocide not someone broke some stuff genocide @Mr. Tea .

 

[mixed_biscuits]

It's a weaselly game, the Hamas PR acolytes are playing justifying the use of the term genocide which most people take to refer to extermination of a population with a certain protected characteristic by reference to a hugely watered down definition.

This is why weak characters immediately get carried away thinking that Israel are set to exterminate Palestinians in toto. They would be right to be scandalised by this if it were true, and the misuse of genocide makes it seem a 1000x truer than it actually is.

 

[mixed_biscuits]

germany's minister of foreign affairs, annalena baerbock from the so called "left" green party. you can hear the spirit of her nazi wehrmacht grandfather when she raises her voice. she explains, genocide, that is what germany stands for, and the parlement applauds her.

I hate to distract you from your ever-expanding conspiracy theory of subterranean Jewish influence and flaws in the German soul (a very right-wing notion!), but there's one small detail to attend to, one little give-away: the Nazi side is the one which wants to kill all the Jews.

It really is that simple a pattern-recognition test.

 

[Mr. Tea]

You're just completely fucking insane at this point, aren't you?

 

[mixed_biscuits]

You're just completely fucking insane at this point, aren't you?

Well, then it looks like so are most serious politicians on both sides, whereupon you have to ask yourself whether it might be you that's insane, Occam's razor and all that. The 'think of the innocents' arguments would be credible if you two listed the threats to the innocents on both sides: along with Israeli attacks Hamas are using - against the rules of war, immorally - child soldiers and human shields as a matter of course. Then it would seem you actually care about these innocents rather than as a stick to bash the side you hate.

 

[Mr. Tea]

What if it were possible that human morality did not revolve around an axis defined by pro- and anti-Jewishness?

What if it were possible for Jews to do bad things, too? In other words.

 

[mixed_biscuits]

There are practically 0 democratic countries who support Hamas over Israel. Is that a) because they're all closet fascists but bizarre ones who really like Jews (yyaldrin's theory) or b) they're all clinically insane (tea's theory).

 

[Mr. Tea]

I was going to buy some of that yummy Sabra baba ghanoush in Sainsbury today, but then I saw that it's made in Israel and put it back.

I fully expect @mixed_biscuits to dispatch Mossad agents to arrest me and drag me to Nuremburg for immediate trial.

 

[mixed_biscuits]

I was going to buy some of that yummy Sabra baba ghanoush in Sainsbury today, but then I saw that it's made in Israel and put it back.

I fully expect @mixed_biscuits to dispatch Mossad agents to arrest me and drag me to Nuremburg for immediate trial.

Guess what? Israel is being boycotted by practically zero democratic countries.

And it's not as if they can't boycott, because many of them boycott Russia.

I guess your boycott leaves you with the far-right and antisemitic regimes again. Oh well.

 

[Mr. Tea]

Guess what? Israel is being boycotted by practically zero democratic countries.

And it's not as if they can't boycott, because many of them boycott Russia.

I guess your boycott leaves you with the far-right and antisemitic regimes again. Oh well.

Achievement unlocked: being called 'far right' by @mixed_biscuits.

 

[mixed_biscuits]

Achievement unlocked: being called 'far right' by @mixed_biscuits.

It's those subtle signs like having common cause with proscribed terrorist groups, theocratic dictatorships that believe you're literally satan and people waving swastikas on your marches.