mixed_biscuits
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I'd go as far as to say that they fetishise consensus on here. By 'they' I mean the bad people.
Since it's been a while since we had an Israel/Palestine thread...
- Thread starter Mr. Tea
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Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
I think it's probably also wishful thinking to suppose that Labour calling for an end to UK arms exports to Israel would in any way pressure the government to actually make any change like that. They're probably just spin it as "They may have a new guy in charge, but it's the same old gang of Jew-hating, Hamas-loving loonies."
maxi
Well-known member
Fair enough, but there's also the navy vessels (see Droid's image above) and Sunak said on the 12th that the British army is on standby "to deliver practical support to Israel and partners in the region, and offer deterrence and assurance." I don't know if this is counted as arms supply or how that breaks down exactly.A nice idea, but wishful thinking, I'm afraid. Israel imports only 4% of its arms from the UK. You can say that number ought to be 0%, and I'd agree, but if it went to 0% overnight, it'd hardly cripple their capabilities, and they'd no doubt just make up the shortfall by buying more from the US (which supplies 70% by itself) instead.
But yeah as I've said it's only US support that's decisive
mixed_biscuits
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Only a few pages ago there were people in this thread telling probably the only user with a Jewish handle to f off in a clearly consensus motivated purge and what did you do? You stood by and watched it happen. J'accuse, mon frere. J'ACCUSE!
maxi
Well-known member
Well that could be one response to the pressure. But it would still mean pressure. They'd have to address it. And depending on how Labour went about it, a tory response like that would be perceived as ridiculous by a large sector of the public as well.
And in the past, the gov have been forced to adjust its position at least somewhat in reaction to Labour's positions, domestic policy during the Corbyn years for example. The extent to which they'd feel pressured to adjust depends on where the public is at really, I think. And right now the public pretty much knows what's going on and wants it to stop
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
Well there was a time between 2017 and 2019 when May had only a very small majority, in fact it was only a majority due to an informal agreement the Tories reached with the DUP, so if Labour and the SNP all voted against the government on some issue, all it would take would be a handful of Tory rebels to align with them for the government to be defeated. That's not the case now, when the Tories have a massive majority.
Further, the Tories know they're totally fucked at the next election, so they have no real impetus to do or say stuff that's popular. Look at Sunak basically abandoning any commitment to net zero, even though 70% of voters support it.
version
Well-known member
Sir Keir Starmer denies Israel-Gaza conflict is 'tearing party apart' as he defends ceasefire stance
In a sign of the division the issue has caused within the party, protesters mobbed the Labour's leader car as he left Chatham House, where he delivered a speech this morning.
maxi
Well-known member
Sir Keir suspended Middlesborough MP Andy McDonald from the parliamentary party after what a Labour spokesman said were "deeply offensive" remarks made at a speech during a pro-Palestinian rally.Sir Keir Starmer denies Israel-Gaza conflict is 'tearing party apart' as he defends ceasefire stance
In a sign of the division the issue has caused within the party, protesters mobbed the Labour's leader car as he left Chatham House, where he delivered a speech this morning.news.sky.com
Mr McDonald said: "We won't rest until we have justice. Until all people, Israelis and Palestinians, between the river and the sea, can live in peaceful liberty."
A slogan used by pro-Palestinian demonstrators, "from the river to the sea, Palestine will be free", has been described as antisemitic by critics, with Home Secretary Suella Braverman claiming it is "widely understood" to call for the destruction of Israel
..it's that overexploited 'dogwhistle' argument that the authoritarian segment of the left (so-called) always use. this is why people like glenn greenwald said cancel culture would come back to bite us.
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
Greenwald may be a Putinite lickspittle and born-again MAGA bellend, but even a stopped clock...
maxi
Well-known member
mixed_biscuits
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The problem lies deeper. There is a hard core of extremists on this site who seem to prefer agreeing to disagreeing. The natural state of man is in conflict.
chava
Well-known member
Dissensus has been feminized
Clinamenic
Binary & Tweed
Come on in Biscuits, the groupthink feels fine!
mixed_biscuits
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Nice independent survey you've got there, Klaus.
mixed_biscuits
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Any agreement beyond the strictly provisional gives me the heebie-jeebies.
mixed_biscuits
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Somewhat ironic given the demographics