version
Well-known member
Do you think they want it?
Since it's been a while since we had an Israel/Palestine thread...
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Do you think they want it?
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
I wouldn't use the word want
More like tensions are high and this Israeli regime is such a loose cannon that it's more likely to crack and escalate than Nasrallah. They already did yesterday, hit multiple targets deep inside Lebanon with drone strikes, probably as a message to Nasrallah. With a normal govt you'd just discount it as tough talk, this one is so fucking crazy tho.
Would obv be a terrible idea for number of reasons
More like tensions are high and this Israeli regime is such a loose cannon that it's more likely to crack and escalate than Nasrallah. They already did yesterday, hit multiple targets deep inside Lebanon with drone strikes, probably as a message to Nasrallah. With a normal govt you'd just discount it as tough talk, this one is so fucking crazy tho.
Would obv be a terrible idea for number of reasons
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
Douglas Murray gonna Douglas Murray
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
Lmao if you go to the tweet he edited that out and then wrote a comment clarifying that Nazis and the Holocaust were in fact bad, but Hamas is worse
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
mixed_biscuits
_________________________
lol get your atrocities in the right order
30-40% of the overall Israeli population? That's absolutely huge.Isaac Chotiner did an interview with a hardline settler activist, and it is nuts
If you have any interest in the religious settler mindset, read it
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The Extreme Ambitions of West Bank Settlers
A leader of the settlement movement on expanding into Gaza, and her vision for the Jewish state.www.newyorker.com
Only caveat I'd make is that religious settlers like her are minority tho a large one (~30-40%, something like that), and that a lot of them are actually there for things like cheaper and partially subsidized cost of living, a kind of securitized suburbia
But she represents the hard edge of settlers who are constantly setting up illegal hilltop outposts, attacking Palestinians and forcing them out, etc. And her part of the settler movement is in the one that's been in power with Netanyahu for the last 15 years, i.e. her neighbor Bezelal Smotrich, and will make any future two-state solution hugely more difficult.
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
no, of settlers, who themselves are not quite 10% of Israeli Jews
so more like 3% of overall Israeli Jewish population. which is still quite a large number, on the order of 150,000.
I should be clear that's just a semi-educated guess
there are two main settler parties that hold 1/10 of the current Knesset seats, so it's clearly a significant force in Israeli politics
version
Well-known member
He's always been horrible, but I think he's on the verge of completely snapping and the mask coming off altogether.
Corpsey
bandz ahoy
It's an astounding and disgusting photo but is it "the culmination of identity liberalism's transformation into genocidal fascism"?
Co-option by genocidal fascism perhaps?
Or is he saying that liberals are so into LBGTQ rights that they're willing to carpet bomb potential homophobes to raise the rainbow flag? (This may well be true of some liberals.)
The photo made me think of tacitus's "they make a desert and call it peace" quote (natch, the only tacitus quote i know)
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
I think it's about the limitations of identity politics alone without some kind of material analysis, as well as a strong moral compass, to back them up. Cooptation is probably a better word than transformation but it's not exactly either.
This isn't a new thing, the Israeli govt is an old and studied hand at pinkwashing. Undeniably things are bad for queer people in the territories, and significantly better for them in Israel (at least for now). Equally, the idea that Israel is invading Gaza, or that Israelis are shooting Palestinians in the West Bank, to liberate Palestinian queers is obviously absurd. It's just a strategy to change the terms of debate bc Israeli politicians and PR types know well the impossibility of making a public global case for the occupations and massive reprisals on their own terms. it works to some extent, you see it all the time on Twitter and sometimes here i.e. "but Hamas throws gay people off buildings" as if the correct answer to that is to killing 20,000 (or whatever the final number winds up being) Palestinians in Gaza. Usually it's a bit more sophisticated than a guy literally holding a rainbow flag in front of bombed out rubble.
It's also an update and variation on the old civilizing mission as cover for colonialism and its wars. I do think Isr/Pal is more complicated than a lot of the "settler colonialism" rhetoric you see thrown around on the left, but in this sense it's correct, the idea of bringing civilization to a more backward area. You also see it in reference to American and other imperial ventures in the Muslim world. i.e. they repress women, so our bombing is justified. it's never quite a direct argument, more of an elision to sidestep the actual purpose, which is never to liberate oppressed minorities. you can't just say "we're civilized and they're primitive" nowadays, but you can do this pinkwashing bullshit.
Btw the Israeli govt itself is not friendly to queer Palestinians. it has long been criticized for denying them asylum in Israel (which is almost exclusively reserved for cooperators with Israeli security forces), so to see this mix of crocodile tears and pinkwashing triumphalism is especially galling.
version
Well-known member
Verso just published a book that touches on this and made it a free download, given the current situation.
Social media is a warzone: the IDF’s strategy for war as online specta
The November 2012 Israeli bombardment of Gaza, called Operation Pillar of Defense, was a seven-day war that killed 174 Palestinians and 6 Israelis and injured thousands more. While the death toll in that operation was relatively low, Israel’s Operation Cast Lead in 2008 and early 2009 saw the...
www.versobooks.com
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
idk I haven't seen anything. my guess is they just ignore it. a significant portion of the Israeli govt - all the religious settler types I keep talking about, probably the Haredi - is virulently homophobic, and they seem to just ignore this "we're fighting for love" bullshit. it's a pretty small part of the overall Israeli PR effort and directed mainly at Western liberals so probably easy to just look past. hasbara is sophisticated enough to know there's no sense in marketing your pinkwashing to the RW folks or your evangelical alliances to the queers.
mixed_biscuits
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Interesting choice of price
