yyaldrin
in je ogen waait de wind
it's interesting how the berlin police is slowly turning into the idf itself, or maybe it has always been like that?
Since it's been a while since we had an Israel/Palestine thread...
- Thread starter Mr. Tea
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it's interesting how the berlin police is slowly turning into the idf itself, or maybe it has always been like that?
mixed_biscuits
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You doofus, they have that backing precisely because they're smol, just like Ukraine has it now. Without that backing they would have been pulverised by now.
mixed_biscuits
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Israel and Ukraine have the free world's backing because we can't just have countries deciding to annihilate their neighbours for no good reason. If you want that kind of world then keeping supporting Iran.
mixed_biscuits
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mixed_biscuits
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It was bad enough when protestors were failing to disambiguate concern for the average Palestinian Joe with Hamas' terrorism, but it's going to be even worse now that all these other baddies are in the mix. What are they gonna chant?: 'From the river to sea Palestine should be free but Hezbollah has no right to land below a certain latitude and Iran must not use nuclear weapons please'. Sorry, guys. You're going to be all in now and it looks really bad for your standing up the oppressed shtick.
hahahahahaha
well, they aren't devotees of the velayet-i fakih, so they will have a much easier time than you, I suspect. That's historical materialism baby!
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
Why do you persist in this risible pretence that Hamas is capable of "annihilating" Israel, or that their animosity towards Israel comes from no source except an irrational tribal hatred?
Meanwhile, Israel actually is annihilating Gaza:
mixed_biscuits
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Good argument
mixed_biscuits
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Israel almost exclusively attacks as a form of defence; it's one of these:
If the porcupine's neighbours had been more chill with it it wouldn't be covered with those deadly quills; everybody knows Israel's neighbours hated its existence and its denizens from the get-go.
mixed_biscuits
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Firstly, Al Jazeera so biased. Secondly, aren't those people supposed to be in a humanitarian zone rather than a warzone? Thirdly, it wouldn't be a warzone if Hamas didn't insist on fighting there; if you've seen paintings of old battles they took place in fields. Fourthly, this bloodline stuff is far-right. Humanity is all one bloodline. Fifthly, you're not going to convince anyone that Israel are actually doing a genocide.
mixed_biscuits
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How will we know when Iran has the capabilty to launch a nuclear missile at Israel?
When Iran has been hit by an Israeli nuclear missile. Israel are not going to let Iran gain this capability. The only way Iran will escape unscathed is by making it clear to Mossad that they are not trying to ready a nuclear attack.
Furthermore, bombing Israel with a nuclear weapon is not gonna make the area very habitable for Palestinians is it?
When Iran has been hit by an Israeli nuclear missile. Israel are not going to let Iran gain this capability. The only way Iran will escape unscathed is by making it clear to Mossad that they are not trying to ready a nuclear attack.
Furthermore, bombing Israel with a nuclear weapon is not gonna make the area very habitable for Palestinians is it?
The question to ask is why he is expending all this effort when noone is convinced.
I mean, Israel has been threatening war with Iran since 1994, and noone is convinced, so biscuits paltry efforts are comparitively small fry.
although when biscuits was smoking skunk like an amateur Israel was funding Iran in its most fervently fundamentalist period against Saddam, so you go figure.
mixed_biscuits
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Chopped logic and conspiracy theory.
mixed_biscuits
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@yyaldrin , like the other antisemites, points to bloodshed but only as justification for even more bloodshed.
If Hamas, Hezbollah and Iran stop firing and retreat to limits with which the international community is happy, and the hostages are returned, then Israel will stop firing (not an unstoppable juggernaut @Mr. Tea ) and there's no more bloodshed.
This doesn't work the other way round. If Israel stops firing and retreats it will continue to be attacked (Hamas said it would do a 10/7 again and again).
So if you're not campaigning for the former then you're on a simple anti-Israel Jewish genocide ticket.
If Hamas, Hezbollah and Iran stop firing and retreat to limits with which the international community is happy, and the hostages are returned, then Israel will stop firing (not an unstoppable juggernaut @Mr. Tea ) and there's no more bloodshed.
This doesn't work the other way round. If Israel stops firing and retreats it will continue to be attacked (Hamas said it would do a 10/7 again and again).
So if you're not campaigning for the former then you're on a simple anti-Israel Jewish genocide ticket.
version
Well-known member
Agamben weighs in:
The End of Judaism
One cannot understand the meaning of what is taking place in Israel today if one does not understand that Zionism constitutes a double negation of the historical reality of Judaism. Not only does it in fact transfer to the Jews the nation-state of Christians, but Zionism represents the culmination of that process of assimilation which, since the late 18th century, has been gradually canceling Jewish identity. Decisively, as Amnon Raz-Krakotzkin has shown in an exemplary study, at the foundation of Zionist consciousness lies another negation, the negation of Galut, that is, of exile as a principle common to all historical forms of Judaism as we know it. The premises of this conception of exile predate the destruction of the Second Temple and are already present in biblical literature. Exile is the very form of Jewish existence on Earth, and the entire Jewish tradition — from the Mishnah to the Talmud, from the architecture of the synagogue to the memory of biblical events — was conceived and lived from the perspective of exile. For an Orthodox Jew, Jews living in the state of Israel are also in exile. And the state according to the Torah, which Jews await upon the coming of the Messiah, has nothing to do with a modern nation-state, so much so that at its core lie precisely the rebuilding of the Temple and the restoration of sacrifices, which the state of Israel does not even want to hear about.
And we should not forget that exile according to Judaism is not only the condition of the Jews, but concerns the deficient condition of the world as a whole. According to some Kabbalists, including Luria, exile defines the very situation of divinity, which created the world by exiling itself from itself, and this exile will last until the advent of Tiqqun, that is, the restoration of the original order.
It is precisely this unconditional acceptance of exile, with the rejection it entails of all present forms of statehood, that establishes the superiority of Jews over religions and peoples who have compromised with the state. Jews are, along with the Roma, the only people who have rejected the state form, conducted no wars, and never stained themselves with the blood of other peoples.
In its fundamental denial of exile and diaspora in favor of a nation-state, Zionism has therefore betrayed the very essence of Judaism. Small wonder then that this removal produced another exile, that of the Palestinians, and led the state of Israel to identify itself with the most extreme and ruthless forms of the modern nation-state. The tenacious claim of history, from which the Diaspora according to Zionists would have excluded Jews, points in the same direction. But this may mean that Judaism, which had not died at Auschwitz, perhaps meets its end today.
The End of Judaism
One cannot understand the meaning of what is taking place in Israel today if one does not understand that Zionism constitutes a double negation of the historical reality of Judaism. Not only does it in fact transfer to the Jews the nation-state of Christians, but Zionism represents the culmination of that process of assimilation which, since the late 18th century, has been gradually canceling Jewish identity. Decisively, as Amnon Raz-Krakotzkin has shown in an exemplary study, at the foundation of Zionist consciousness lies another negation, the negation of Galut, that is, of exile as a principle common to all historical forms of Judaism as we know it. The premises of this conception of exile predate the destruction of the Second Temple and are already present in biblical literature. Exile is the very form of Jewish existence on Earth, and the entire Jewish tradition — from the Mishnah to the Talmud, from the architecture of the synagogue to the memory of biblical events — was conceived and lived from the perspective of exile. For an Orthodox Jew, Jews living in the state of Israel are also in exile. And the state according to the Torah, which Jews await upon the coming of the Messiah, has nothing to do with a modern nation-state, so much so that at its core lie precisely the rebuilding of the Temple and the restoration of sacrifices, which the state of Israel does not even want to hear about.
And we should not forget that exile according to Judaism is not only the condition of the Jews, but concerns the deficient condition of the world as a whole. According to some Kabbalists, including Luria, exile defines the very situation of divinity, which created the world by exiling itself from itself, and this exile will last until the advent of Tiqqun, that is, the restoration of the original order.
It is precisely this unconditional acceptance of exile, with the rejection it entails of all present forms of statehood, that establishes the superiority of Jews over religions and peoples who have compromised with the state. Jews are, along with the Roma, the only people who have rejected the state form, conducted no wars, and never stained themselves with the blood of other peoples.
In its fundamental denial of exile and diaspora in favor of a nation-state, Zionism has therefore betrayed the very essence of Judaism. Small wonder then that this removal produced another exile, that of the Palestinians, and led the state of Israel to identify itself with the most extreme and ruthless forms of the modern nation-state. The tenacious claim of history, from which the Diaspora according to Zionists would have excluded Jews, points in the same direction. But this may mean that Judaism, which had not died at Auschwitz, perhaps meets its end today.
mixed_biscuits
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These guys have got some brass neck:
He says, claiming that Jews are traducing Judaism and their history through membership of Israel. Now AFAICT the Jews in Israel are reasonably happy to be part of a nation state. So is Agamben implying that there's some false consciousness involved and that the best people to speak for Jews are gentiles?
Maybe Agamben would thus consider Jews to be more authentically exiled in a concentration camp rather than inauthentically homed in Israel; I bet Hamas would dig that notion.