Magick!

[massrock]

I like the I Ching.

Tarot can be very impressive but I Ching is more like something you can consult regularly. I feel like it has a friendly, slightly cheeky voice, but it tells you straight when it needs to. Tarot is more like a heavy psychoanalytical session. Also you need more background in it to make it useful, the symbolism can be quite oblique I find. Not a fan of the Thoth deck for that reason. I guess it's a matter of what resonates with you intuitively.

For me it's more about meditating on situations and thoughts / feelings about them than 'telling the future' (duh), or bringing other points of view to bear. Most of the time these days I will use the coins method, but if you do the whole yarrow stalks thing it's good for focus and helps you to feel like you've done something significant to engage the oracle.

I'm not sure if saying that these things just tell you what you already know is that interesting or useful from a magick point of view. Sure on one level you have a set of generalities that can reflect universal inner conditions (archetypes), but there's also ways of looking at it where certain 'random' acts can help to reveal other interconnections. Or not, or something else. But if you think synchronicities happen at all then why not.

 

[massrock]

That last line sounds a bit annoying and didactic, which it's not meant to. Its just reading Spare and having your brain twisted up is more interesting than some 5 second formula thingy.

Goes without saying there's always going to be a lot of rubbish on the net.

But, there are points of contact with ideas. It's up to the individual to investigate further. If someone is not bringing any creativity or imagination to bear (or if they don't have any) then that's their lookout really.

 

[DannyL]

and again to reiterate what i am really interested in is not what books i should read but in peoples personal experiences and practices. i know i haven't offered much myself. it's something i'd have to think about but as a way to get other people to give something, i suppose i should....

There's a degree to which one doesn't want to write up or share this kind of experience, though. Not just 'cos of fear of ridicule but because if something is really powerful to you personally, you don't want to reduce that by blabbing about it to anyone who'll listen. "To know, to dare, to will, and to keep silent". There's certain things I won't even tell anyone about (normally things that are current), and then there's things that I feel happy to share over a pint but don't want to commit to a screen. With the latter, it'd feel like it was "leaking" - a parallel might be if in the middle of writing a poem or a story, you decided to go and discuss it to death with anyone in earshot. Wouldn't do much for the crucible of the creative process, I think.

 

[Martin Dust]

How do you work with neither neither stuff Mal? Anything to do with music and performance for you? Might write a bit about my own experiences when I've had a think.

Most common is to sit alone in the studio, with all the tools I need at hand, and drift off into not thinking anything at all - not as easy as it sounds. I often use pictures/sounds/words to invoke/evoke the feeling I'm after. If it's not working I switch up to something else but over the last two years I've kinda be able to get there all the time.

I often just go for a long drive on the M1 and just keep think the same thought or mantra over and over and over - until it goes beyond the automatic.

I still drawn and make musical sigils, often hiding them in strange places only to find them again years later The downside of this is, often I can end up in a unpredictable emotional mess, which is not good if other people are in the studio - there's been times when Ken and Rich have walked in and just turned around without a word

 

[DannyL]

I like the I Ching.

Tarot can be very impressive but I Ching is more like something you can consult regularly. I feel like it has a friendly, slightly cheeky voice, but it tells you straight when it needs to. Tarot is more like a heavy psychoanalytical session. Also you need more background in it to make it useful, the symbolism can be quite oblique I find. Not a fan of the Thoth deck for that reason. I guess it's a matter of what resonates with you intuitively.

For me it's more about meditating on situations and thoughts / feelings about them than 'telling the future' (duh), or bringing other points of view to bear. Most of the time these days I will use the coins method, but if you do the whole yarrow stalks thing it's good for focus and helps you to feel like you've done something significant to engage the oracle.

I'm not sure if saying that these things just tell you what you already know is that interesting or useful from a magick point of view. Sure on one level you have a set of generalities that can reflect universal inner conditions (archetypes), but there's also ways of looking at it where certain 'random' acts can help to reveal other interconnections. Or not, or something else. But if you think synchronicities happen at all then why not.

I love the I Ching also. I tend to use it to help make decisions when I'm at a point when I can't decide something. It tends to reflect back the situation to me, and normally gives a sensilbe angle of departure alongside that. I really focus on the lines and use a method to narrow down multiple changing lines to oen that is most important - this way you feel like you're getting direct, precise advice rather than getting a bit lost. I've often found that some of the most striking divinations are ones I can't undersand on first - this is normally because I've made up on my mind about a situation ("Of course she fancies me!", "I'm defintely going to get that job!") and have become attached to a certain outcome and can't acknowledge that the situation isn't in accord with what's going on in my head.

An anecdote I don't mind sharing - I was in Thailand, on one of the little islands. Ended up drinking most of the afternoon with some English guys and a West Ham supporting expat who ran the bar. Stumbled back to my room, and fell asleep and woke up at 7 or 8. Having a quick search through my stuff I realised I'd lost my moneybelt which contained most of my cash and my passport. I ran back down to the bar in a panic. No joy. SHITSHITSHIT. I ran back to the room and tore it apart looking for the passport. It's still not there. I'm next to tears, thinking about how I'll have to borrow money to get back to Bangkok, going to the Embassy etc. I decide to throw the I Ching to see what I should do - I get the answer "Waiting" and a line which states that "Help will come from an unexpected source". Unsurprsingly, this doesn't break my negativty, in fact I remember thinking "FUCK OFF what a load of irrelevant bollocks". I go back down to the bar. I sat miserably, someone kindly buys me a beer - and a complete stranger overhears what we're talking about, and says "oh, there's was someone in here earlier, who'd found a passport". To cut a longish story short the bar owner determined the identity of who had it - it was a women who lived in hut on the beach. We went round there, and she had my passport and all my money wrapped up safely in a blanket. I almost passed out with relief.

So, sometimes, you get an answer that you can't hear.

 

[DannyL]

Most common is to sit alone in the studio, with all the tools I need at hand, and drift off into not thinking anything at all - not as easy as it sounds. I often use pictures/sounds/words to invoke/evoke the feeling I'm after. If it's not working I switch up to something else but over the last two years I've kinda be able to get there all the time.

I often just go for a long drive on the M1 and just keep think the same thought or mantra over and over and over - until it goes beyond the automatic.

I still drawn and make musical sigils, often hiding them in strange places only to find them again years later The downside of this is, often I can end up in a unpredictable emotional mess, which is not good if other people are in the studio - there's been times when Ken and Rich have walked in and just turned around without a word

Really interesting, ta.

I used to work with that idea by opposing opposites to each other. Usually my own ideas/attachments/emotions especially when I was strongly charged up about something i.e. when I found myself really angry at someone I might contemplate a time when they'd been kind to me, or how they'd appear to their kids, and keep on doing this over and over until I wasn't really thinking about or siding with anything - just left with this free-floating mass of excitment, which I'd use to charge the sigil. This reduced me to tears once or twice.

I don't know if the magic worked as such, in most cases, can't remember most of what the sigils were for, but it's an interesting processes to go through. Makes you a lot more mentally flexible and self-aware anyway. I can see similarities with this and Buddhist compassion-generation meditations.

 

[luka]

oh yeah danny sorry i was forgetting abut that Golom tendency in people. holding onto your treasures in a dark cave!
i should have known better. i don't really feel like that.

 

[Martin Dust]

Really interesting, ta.
I used to work with that idea by opposing opposites to each other. Usually my own ideas/attachments/emotions especially when I was strongly charged up about something i.e. when I found myself really angry at someone I might contemplate a time when they'd been kind to me, or how they'd appear to their kids, and keep on doing this over and over until I wasn't really thinking about or siding with anything - just left with this free-floating mass of excitment, which I'd use to charge the sigil. This reduced me to tears once or twice.

I can hold a grudge for years and years, someone who wronged me a couple of years is just about to get the treatment, if only to get it out of my head space. I love using the Burroughs method of photocopying a photo and placing said images in my shoes and spending the next couple of days stomping on their face Silly but it feels so good

I don't know if the magic worked as such, in most cases, can't remember most of what the sigils were for, but it's an interesting processes to go through. Makes you a lot more mentally flexible and self-aware anyway. I can see similarities with this and Buddhist compassion-generation meditations.

Sometimes for me it's just a great way to put a full stop of the end of matters/things - done.

 

[DannyL]

oh yeah danny sorry i was forgetting abut that Golom tendency in people. holding onto your treasures in a dark cave!
i should have known better. i don't really feel like that.

That strikes me as another too much coffee statement - it ain't really like that.

 

[continuum]

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[mms]

I can summon pretty much no enthusiasm for this sort of thing, but I am keen on Austin Osman Spare. I find him a very humane character.

i saw a very good talk on some aspects of Austin Osman Spare's art recently, and the way he used certain techniques in his art to create a kind of hypnagogic view everything turned surreal, more so, and more effectivley that the bolder gestures of the 'surrealist painters'. Also the way he worked with automatic drawing, it's a bit ridiculous he's not more well known but as it is you know.

 

[Martin Dust]

i saw a very good talk on some aspects of Austin Osman Spare's art recently, and the way he used certain techniques in his art to create a kind of hypnagogic view everything turned surreal, more so, and more effectivley that the bolder gestures of the 'surrealist painters'. Also the way he worked with automatic drawing, it's a bit ridiculous he's not more well known but as it is you know.

True, Gen had a picture that Austin did of the women that taught him, simple pencil and pastels, is the most haunting thing I've ever seen.

 

[mms]

True, Gen had a picture that Austin did of the women that taught him, simple pencil and pastels, is the most haunting thing I've ever seen.

Mrs Patterson?

The thing is though that almost all the important 20th century artists and some musicians in Europe anyway, were touched by people like the Theosophists etc, the further you dig the more you find the influence of this and spiritualism, the connections get really interesting, esp with things like ideas around synasthesia induction, colour organs, kandinsky etc, i guess in some ways it's the internal the remapping of belief, and objective life in the Aftermath of the European Wars.

 

[Martin Dust]

Mrs Patterson?

Yeah. Gen wanted to drop some acid and see who could stare at it for the longest, I wasn't keen The depth in that picture had a really sinister vibe to it, like at any point she was going to flick her eyes open and give you the evils!

The thing is though that almost all the important 20th century artists and some musicians in Europe anyway, were touched by people like the Theosophists etc, the further you dig the more you find the influence of this and spiritualism, the connections get really interesting, esp with things like ideas around synasthesia induction, colour organs, kandinsky etc, i guess in some ways it's the internal the remapping of belief, and objective life in the Aftermath of the European Wars.

Very much so, the remapping is an important part and it takes a lot of work but it's very interesting if you can come out the "other side".

 

[luka]

you might be right dan, but i'll say what i feel at the time, regardless and if its wrong you can pull me up on it no problem
im a humble guy, ask anyone

 

[DannyL]

Fair enough. I don't think not wanting to put everything on the net makes you like Gollum. Plenty of good reasons not to do so that aren't just mindless hoarding related. I've been trying to be confessional enough in this thread to make it worth reading anyway.

Onto to something more interesting:

The thing is though that almost all the important 20th century artists and some musicians in Europe anyway, were touched by people like the Theosophists etc, the further you dig the more you find the influence of this and spiritualism, the connections get really interesting, esp with things like ideas around synasthesia induction, colour organs, kandinsky etc, i guess in some ways it's the internal the remapping of belief, and objective life in the Aftermath of the European Wars.

You ever looked into the roster of the Golden Dawn? Pretty incredible line up of loads of the talents of the day. Wallace Budge (famous Eygptoloist), Bram Stoker, Algernon Blackwood, Arthur Machen and women as well - Moina Mathers, Florence Farr, Annie Hornimann. Amazing cast of characters.

Phil Hine has been doing a lot of research into this and the influence of theosophical ideas on contemporary occult and new age - don't know if any of it has been put online yet though. It's been the subject of a couple of lecture series' at Treadwells. Worth getting down there if you can.

Also, for piece of post-war aftermath writing infused with occultism - check Steffi Grant's intro to "Zos Speaks". It really is an amazing bit of writing. Evokes a whole world that's now disappeared.

 

[STN]

Fair enough. I don't think not wanting to put everything on the net makes you like Gollum. Plenty of good reasons not to do so that aren't just mindless hoarding related. I've been trying to be confessional enough in this thread to make it worth reading anyway.

Onto to something more interesting:

The thing is though that almost all the important 20th century artists and some musicians in Europe anyway, were touched by people like the Theosophists etc, the further you dig the more you find the influence of this and spiritualism, the connections get really interesting, esp with things like ideas around synasthesia induction, colour organs, kandinsky etc, i guess in some ways it's the internal the remapping of belief, and objective life in the Aftermath of the European Wars.

You ever looked into the roster of the Golden Dawn? Pretty incredible line up of loads of the talents of the day. Wallace Budge (famous Eygptoloist), Bram Stoker, Algernon Blackwood, Arthur Machen and women as well - Moina Mathers, Florence Farr, Annie Hornimann. Amazing cast of characters.

Phil Hine has been doing a lot of research into this and the influence of theosophical ideas on contemporary occult and new age - don't know if any of it has been put online yet though. It's been the subject of a couple of lecture series' at Treadwells. Worth getting down there if you can.

Also, for piece of post-war aftermath writing infused with occultism - check Steffi Grant's intro to "Zos Speaks". It really is an amazing bit of writing. Evokes a whole world that's not disappeared.

And WB Yeats as well I think?

 

[DannyL]

Indeed. That's a partial list of the top of my head. Plus Crowley, Mathers, Wescott etc. Pretty amazing really, wish I knew more about it - perhaps occultism was just the fashion for movers and shakers in the arts world at the time. Bit like Damien Hirst and Tracy Emin being in the IOT (well, maybe they are - they just don't like to talk about it )

 

[mms]

Indeed. That's a partial list of the top of my head. Plus Crowley, Mathers, Wescott etc. Pretty amazing really, wish I knew more about it - perhaps occultism was just the fashion for movers and shakers in the arts world at the time. Bit like Damien Hirst and Tracy Emin being in the IOT (well, maybe they are - they just don't like to talk about it )

apparently natalie umbruglias into seances

 

[CHAOTROPIC]

Oh, this is my mate Steve's blog. Interesting combination of voodoo and record obsession.

http://cleanlivingindifficultcircumstances.blogspot.com/

Steve Grasso is a friend of mine too ... really great guy & the most inspiring magician I know, I think ... really makes sense of the whole mess.

Loved the oppositional emotional sigilisation .. I'll be trying that.

I'm really into all this too. Dunno what to say really. I'm a bit drunk. Erm ... chaos magic is great & much maligned now, as devotion has lost its sting & everyone wants to get back to religion, apparently, but sigils really work & the old-school Golden Dawn shit still has real power. Every sigil I've ever performed has paid off, spectacularly. & personally, I try to do the lesser banishing ritual of the pentagram at least once a week, with incense & candles & daggers & the full works, & it's still the best grounding meditation I've ever practiced.

I'm with Luka, completely, on the basics though. Synchronicity & kindof letting the subconscious naturally bleed into & be bled into, the world, just seems to work. For me at least.

I'm glad this thread is here. It's lovely to read of people's experience of this.