Since it's been a while since we had an Israel/Palestine thread...

[droid]

I don't defend the current Israeli regime. And Hamas (and Iran) fully the consequences when the attack was planned. They are not THAT stupid. As if they care about the Palestinian civilians at all..

Ah, so Hamas are responsible for the Israeli crimes, but when Hamas commits crimes they come out of a vacuum. I understand. Oh, and Iran, lets throw Iran in there as well. It definitely has absolutely nothing to do the longest occupation in modern history and the millions living hopeless lives defined by endless, unimaginable suffering at the hands of tyrants.

 

[chava]

Ah, so Hamas are responsible for the Israeli crimes, but when Hamas commits crimes they come out of a vacuum. I understand. Oh, and Iran, lets throw Iran in there as well. It definitely has absolutely nothing to do the longest occupation in modern history and the millions living hopeless lives defined by endless, unimaginable suffering at the hands of tyrants.

I don't think we need to go into the discussion about who has the right to the land. This is about whether the jewish community can feel safe or not. Also: when does the Israeli/jewish people living outside Israel go into the streets and cheers when the IDF commits atrocities? Now it's like 9/11 when Death to America was chanted in streets of Western cities

 

[droid]

I don't think we need to go into the discussion about who has the right to the land. This is about whether the jewish community can feel safe or not. Also: when does the Israeli/jewish people living outside Israel go into the streets and cheers when the IDF commits atrocities? Now it's like 9/11 when Death to America was chanted in streets of Western cities

Exactly. Lets only focus on what just happened and ignore everything else. You should cultivate that already carefully honed myopia, it will come in especially useful in the coming days and weeks. You can practise on this recently announced war crime.

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[DannyL]

I don't think we need to go into the discussion about who has the right to the land. This is about whether the jewish community can feel safe or not. Also: when does the Israeli/jewish people living outside Israel go into the streets and cheers when the IDF commits atrocities? Now it's like 9/11 when Death to America was chanted in streets of Western cities

I read Droid's comment as being about the open air prison that is Gaza, not the "right to land". Absolutely there's a racism at work in the reporting which highlights the suffering of white Israelis and minimizes that of Palestinian Arabs. We know the names of the young Israelis killed and can empathize and understand how pointless and tragic their murders are, but we can't say the same about Palestinians who will remain numbers.
There's a hierarchy of suffering, distasteful as it to draw attention to it, which is the outcome of colonial power relations

 

[Mr. Tea]

I don't think we need to go into the discussion about who has the right to the land. This is about whether the jewish community can feel safe or not.

Not really, no. We've already got a dedicated thread about antisemitism in general, and another about terror attacks in Europe. This thread is about Israel/Palestine.

 

[Mr. Tea]

Now it's like 9/11 when Death to America was chanted in streets of Western cities

In all fairness I think that was mainly just @luka.

 

[Mr. Tea]

As an aside, you really know someone's bang out of line when they've got me and droid liking each other's posts.

 

[subvert47]

 

[chava]

Exactly. Lets only focus on what just happened and ignore everything else. You should cultivate that already carefully honed myopia, i will come in especially useful in the coming days and weeks. You can practise on this recently announced war crime.

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Where should we draw the line, then? If we really need to I think we can all agree that in the global historical distribution of repressed peoples jews should maybe get in the top 5, maybe top 3?

 

[Mr. Tea]

Where should we draw the line, then? If we really need to I think we can all agree that in the global historical distribution of repressed peoples jews should maybe get in the top 5, maybe top 3?

But that's completely pointless, because people in Gaza in 2023 are not responsible for what happened to Jews in 1200 in England or France or Poland or anywhere else, are they?

 

[chava]

I read Droid's comment as being about the open air prison that is Gaza, not the "right to land". Absolutely there's a racism at work in the reporting which highlights the suffering of white Israelis and minimizes that of Palestinian Arabs. We know the names of the young Israelis killed and can empathize and understand how pointless and tragic their murders are, but we can't say the same about Palestinians who will remain numbers.
There's a hierarchy of suffering, distasteful as it to draw attention to it, which is the outcome of colonial power relations

But that's completely pointless, because people in Gaza in 2023 are not responsible for what happened to Jews in 1200 in England or France or Poland or anywhere else, are they?

Exactly, where do we draw the line? Are the kids taken as hostages responsible for the Darfour Declaration?

 

[chava]

This dude don't believe any Israeli civilians has been killed. Ok

 

[droid]

Where should we draw the line, then? If we really need to I think we can all agree that in the global historical distribution of repressed peoples jews should maybe get in the top 5, maybe top 3?

The occupation is not something that happened in the distant past. It is happening right now.

Solutions to the conflict have been available and within reach since the late 1970s, but Israel's preference is to continually escalate as they possess an overwhelming military advantage. You cannot torture millions of people for decades and not expect a response in kind.

 

[Mr. Tea]

Exactly, where do we draw the line? Are the kids taken as hostages responsible for the Darfour Declaration?

I'd say a look at the present Israeli government's responsibility for the actions of the present Israeli government might be a good place to start.

 

[chava]

I'd say a look at the present Israeli government's responsibility for the actions of the present Israeli government might be a good place to start.

Please point to where they have taken minors as hostages, gunned down elderly and spit on and paraded bodies of young womens corpses down the street after doing a coordinated massacre at a goddanm goa trance festival.

 

[chava]

The occupation is not something that happened in the distant past. It is happening right now.

Solutions to the conflict have been available and within reach since the late 1970s, but Israel's preference is to continually escalate as they possess an overwhelming military advantage. You cannot torture millions of people for decades and not expect a response in kind.

Let's not go there. Lack of solution to the conflict is not only on Israel's side.

 

[Mr. Tea]

Please point to where they have taken minors as hostages, gunned down elderly and spit on and paraded bodies of young womens corpses down the street after doing a coordinated massacre at a goddanm goa trance festival.

They kill kids all the fucking time, you dimwit. Even Israeli newspapers report on it: https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news...his-year/00000188-aa5a-db59-a19a-fe7b87120000

And that's not even the half of it. They've basically had their country stolen from under their feet within a human lifetime:

 

[droid]

You really are catastrophically ignorant aren't you?

Israel kidnaps and imprisons about 700 Palestinian children every year, which I guess is some improvement over the 30+ year policy of systematically smashing the legs of Palestinian children, an extension of the official 'breaking the bones' policy implemented by Yitzhak Rabin during the first intifada.

Do you really want me to post examples of the thousands of mutilations, desecrations, rapes, the countless humiliations, the gleeful celebrations of atrocities, the endless calls for genocide, the kids in cages, the mothers and babies left to die in childbirth at checkpoints as teenage IDF soldiers look on and laugh?

Seriously, go and read a fucking book.

 

[droid]

It must be comforting to live in such a simple world, where all outrage is confined to whatever just popped up on your phone. A hermetic little bubble of heavily mediated unreality, isolated completely from history and context.

 

[chava]

It must be comforting to live in such a simple world, where all outrage is confined to whatever just popped up on your phone. A hermetic little bubble of heavily mediated unreality, isolated completely from history and context.

I am not living on my phone. You take a walk in my city, supposedly the 'safest city on earth', dressed up as a Orthodox Jew. Can you walk in safety? I doubt it. Then walk around the main square with a Hizb-ut-Tahrir flag or a chanting a Hamas phrase. No problem.