Since it's been a while since we had an Israel/Palestine thread...

Mr. Tea

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
Israel continually and flagrantly breaks international law, as you well know.

news.un.org

Palestine: International law obliges Israel to end occupation, says rights panel

All States and international organizations, including the United Nations, have obligations under international law to bring to an end Israel’s unlawful presence in the Occupied Palestinian Territory, according to a new legal position paper released Friday by a top independent human rights panel.
news.un.org news.un.org
 
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thirdform

pass the sick bucket
germaphobian said:
It can and it will (and you know it).
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yes, with Kamala in charge.

Hardly a ringing endorsement for the stability of their democracy is it?

As you said in another thread, Trump is pro-Israel and pro-Russia. This means he must not antagonise Russia's allies too much, chiefly China, hence swift conclusion to this war.

For you being anti-russian government at least, it's no problem backing the democrats. For biscuits and crew who spent half of their time lambasting democrats approach to gender, lgbt/woke ideology etc, not so. difficult predicament for them, have to make about turn. Being insulated in Latvia does give you a privilege in this specific itteration of Roo Paul's drag race, one would not like to deny it.
 
G

germaphobian

Well-known member
thirdform said:
As you said in another thread, Trump is pro-Israel and pro-Russia. This means he must not antagonise Russia's allies too much, chiefly China, hence swift conclusion to this war.
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He is pro-Russian in context of American politics and as far as rhetoric goes, but even that is within reason, of course. Not that he's gonna stop supporting America's greatest ally so as not to antagonize Putin, he is not that invested in the whole issue. If anything, he keeps saying that he'll support Israel much more that democrats who, in his words, are not doing nearly enough. And even Putin himself couldn't give a rat's ass about Palestine, it's just a tactical choice at the moment (plus, in reality, he's pretty friendly with Israel). So sorry, just won't happen in any scenario. I don't see a scenario where Israel stops getting Americas total support. You should work with that in mind.

P.S. And Trump deffo wants to antagonise China, to put it mildly :D That's actually a big part of sort of pro-Russian sentiment, they want to rip Russia out of China's embrace and use it against the former friend. Spells nothing good for my country, but that's a whole different issue.
 
Mr. Tea

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
mixed_biscuits said:
What's the proper answer?
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My answer is that your question is disingenuous because it contains the implicit assumption that Israel "plays by the rules", when it's been sanctioned by the UN hundreds of times over many decades for breaking these rules that you apparently hold so dear.
 
T

thirdform

pass the sick bucket
germaphobian said:
He is pro-Russian in context of American politics and as far as rhetoric goes, but even that is within reason, of course. Not that he's gonna stop supporting America's greatest ally so as not to antagonize Putin, he is not that invested in the whole issue. If anything, he keeps saying that he'll support Israel much more that democrats who, in his words, are not doing nearly enough.
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Oh of course he says that, but democratic governments have always donated more to Israel than republicans. What matters here are the tensions precisely in US politics between the nativists and the classic atlanticists, of which Kamala is one.

germaphobian said:
And even Putin himself couldn't give a rat's ass about Palestine, it's just a tactical choice at the moment (plus, in reality, he's pretty friendly with Israel).
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Of course it's a tactical choice. But given America is far greater imperialist power than Russia, he's locked into that tactical choice for a while, unless, of course, he has to change his allegiances in lou of a war involving either iran and the US and/or the US and China. Both of which the US government are determined to avoid. Could they win in a war with Iran? Most probably yes, though with significant losses. Their whole political system is already on the precipice of collapse, and nothing looks close to taking the place of them.

germaphobian said:
So sorry, just won't happen in any scenario. I don't see a scenario where Israel stops getting Americas total support. You should work with that in mind.

P.S. And Trump deffo wants to antagonise China, to put it mildly :D That's actually a big part of sort of pro-Russian sentiment, they want to rip Russia out of China's embrace and use it against the former friend. Spells nothing good for my country, but that's a whole different issue.
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I mean they are already demanding Israel commit to a ceasefire. Ukraine has not been successful for them (or more rather they realised that the best option was to drip feed Ukraine and prolong the war) the same goes for Germany in Europe, this is what it is all in lou of.

And Trump has said that he wants to antagonise China since 2016. He cannot though. He can't even really get that close to Putin, this is a myth propagated by #russiagate liberals. What he can do, however, is send nato into chaos, which would be a positive, in the longterm. Not that I'm going to be partisan for him.
 
T

thirdform

pass the sick bucket
also explains why the UK will end up rejoining EU and Deutschland will have to recalibrate its alliances to pro-russia.
 
Mr. Tea

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
@thirdform

"And Trump has said that he wants to antagonise China since 2016. He cannot though. He can't even really get that close to Putin, this is a myth propagated by #russiagate liberals."

Maybe I'm missing something here, but none of even the wilder speculation I've heard about Trump and Russia ever claimed he had some kind of influence over Putin. The whole idea sounds ridiculous the moment you say it. But a Putin influence on Trump is a totally different proposition, and I can't really understand why anyone who's not true MAGA believer would seriously doubt it at this point.
 
G

germaphobian

Well-known member
thirdform said:
Oh of course he says that, but democratic governments have always donated more to Israel than republicans. What matters here are the tensions precisely in US politics between the nativists and the classic atlanticists, of which Kamala is one.



Of course it's a tactical choice. But given America is far greater imperialist power than Russia, he's locked into that tactical choice for a while, unless, of course, he has to change his allegiances in lou of a war involving either iran and the US and/or the US and China. Both of which the US government are determined to avoid. Could they win in a war with Iran? Most probably yes, though with significant losses. Their whole political system is already on the precipice of collapse, and nothing looks close to taking the place of them.



I mean they are already demanding Israel commit to a ceasefire. Ukraine has not been successful for them (or more rather they realised that the best option was to drip feed Ukraine and prolong the war) the same goes for Germany in Europe, this is what it is all in lou of.

And Trump has said that he wants to antagonise China since 2016. He cannot though. He can't even really get that close to Putin, this is a myth propagated by #russiagate liberals. What he can do, however, is send nato into chaos, which would be a positive, in the longterm. Not that I'm going to be partisan for him.
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At the end of the day, with Trump it's just guesses and cliffhangers, because if elected, he may do exactly the opposite of what you or me or anyone claims he will do and he would get away with it too. Also, he has made contradictory statments about every single issue, a real TV man.
 
mixed_biscuits

mixed_biscuits

_________________________
Mr. Tea said:
@thirdform

"And Trump has said that he wants to antagonise China since 2016. He cannot though. He can't even really get that close to Putin, this is a myth propagated by #russiagate liberals."

Maybe I'm missing something here, but none of even the wilder speculation I've heard about Trump and Russia ever claimed he had some kind of influence over Putin. The whole idea sounds ridiculous the moment you say it. But a Putin influence on Trump is a totally different proposition, and I can't really understand why anyone who's not true MAGA believer would seriously doubt it at this point.
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You'd expect the influence to be from the more powerful state on the less powerful, not the other way round.
 
mixed_biscuits

mixed_biscuits

_________________________
germaphobian said:
At the end of the day, with Trump it's just guesses and cliffhangers, because if elected, he may do exactly the opposite of what you or me or anyone claims he will do and he would get away with it too. Also, he has made contradictory statments about every single issue, a real TV man.
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By making contradictory statements he can get away with more extreme statements because he's not wedded to them exclusively.
 
Mr. Tea

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
mixed_biscuits said:
You'd expect the influence to be from the more powerful state on the less powerful, not the other way round.
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If you had literally no idea how politics, espionage or human psychology work, or wilfully ignore that we're talking about one man and not the USA as a whole, then yes, you might expect that.
 
mixed_biscuits

mixed_biscuits

_________________________
Mr. Tea said:
If you had literally no idea how politics, espionage or human psychology work, or wilfully ignore that we're talking about one man and not the USA as a whole, then yes, you might expect that.
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One man who happens to have been the President, so I don't think you can disentangle them so glibly, Connor Spiracytheorist.
 
Mr. Tea

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
@mixed_biscuits See that?

newrepublic.com

Marjorie Taylor Greene Does Not Want to Talk about Jewish Space Lasers

The Georgia representative got nasty with a reporter who asked her about the conspiracy.
newrepublic.com newrepublic.com

That's your girlfriend, that is.

See these guys?

Charlottesville_'Unite_the_Right'_Rally_(35780274914)_crop.jpg

They're your best mates, they are.

These are your people now. Sure, most of them support Israel, but that's only because they hate Arabs and Muslims even more than they hate Jews. But make no mistake that they really fucking hate Jews as well.

As the forum's foremost philosemite, does this not bother you in the least?
 
mixed_biscuits

mixed_biscuits

_________________________
Mr. Tea said:
@mixed_biscuits See that?

newrepublic.com

Marjorie Taylor Greene Does Not Want to Talk about Jewish Space Lasers

The Georgia representative got nasty with a reporter who asked her about the conspiracy.
newrepublic.com newrepublic.com

That's your girlfriend, that is.

See these guys?

View attachment 20514

They're your best mates, they are.

These are your people now. Sure, most of them support Israel, but that's only because they hate Arabs and Muslims even more than they hate Jews. But make no mistake that they really fucking hate Jews as well.

As the forum's foremost philosemite, does this not bother you in the least?
Click to expand...
Sign of the times: philosemite is an insult.
 
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