Russia Surrounded

IdleRich

IdleRich

IdleRich
U
IdleRich said:
Feels like Caesar has crossed the Rubicon.
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Obviously got that completely wrong in that I meant that a move had been been made that could not be undone, one of those "if you shoot at the king you'd best d5 miss" kinda moments.. and now they announce deescalation... Hey Vlad, just a ljoke mate, you and me are still cool right?

Does it really work like that?
 
Leo

Leo

Well-known member
at this point, would threats from Putin be enough to cause the turnaround? putin must have agreed to something, another shoe is bound to drop.
 
Mr. Tea

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
What I don't understand is why Putin can't just shut down Wagner by cutting off their funding? Or does it have so many income streams independent of the government that that's irrelevant now? Maybe Prigozhin has a total monopoly on whatever Russia's equivalent of hot dog stands is, or something.
 
V

version

Well-known member
They probably could put a big dent in their finances, but I think Wagner also have outside sources of income due to their control of gold and diamond mines in places like Sudan.
 
Mr. Tea

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
version said:
They probably could put a big dent in their finances, but I think Wagner also have outside sources of income due to their control of gold and diamond mines in places like Sudan.
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Oh that's a relief, I'd thought for a moment they might be involved in something highly unethical.
 
Leo

Leo

Well-known member
Interesting

The brief rebellion by the Wagner mercenary chief Yevgeny V. Prigozhin failed to gather much public support as his columns were moving toward Moscow — and a new analysis of messages on social media suggests that Kremlin propaganda efforts had undermined his popularity before the mutiny even began.

Mr. Prigozhin had become a polemical figure in Russian political life in the months since the full-scale invasion last year, frequently criticizing the military leadership and forcing the Kremlin into a delicate balancing act.

On one hand, the Kremlin leveraged Mr. Prigozhin’s assault of Bakhmut to claim progress after losses on the battlefield last fall in the Kharkiv region and near Kherson. On the other, it carefully avoided elevating Mr. Prigozhin’s status too much, to avoid destabilizing the political system that President Vladimir V. Putin has been building since he entered the Kremlin more than two decades ago.

With the fall of Bakhmut last month, however, Mr. Prigozhin’s usefulness to the government in Moscow seemed to have run out.
The Russian Ministry of Defense quickly moved to assert its authority over Mr. Prigozhin’s unregulated corps of fighters, announcing a plan that would have put Wagner forces under direct state control by requiring anyone fighting in Ukraine to have a contract with the Russian army.
At the same time, the Kremlin’s machinery for influencing public opinion kicked into gear, chipping away at Mr. Prigozhin’s image.
The new analysis by a FilterLabs.AI, a firm that tracks public sentiment in Russia by monitoring social media and internet forums, found that Mr. Prigozhin was subjected to a Kremlin propaganda assault. (FilterLabs uses computer algorithms to track internet and social media postings to see if people are speaking negatively or positively about a topic or person.)
Russian news media backed the Ministry of Defense plan, and state-influenced outlets began speaking more critically of Mr. Prigozhin. At the same time, access to Telegram channels that were controlled by him or supportive of him became more difficult, with users reporting slowdowns. Public support for Mr. Prigozhin and Wagner fell sharply, FilterLabs found.
And even though Mr. Prigozhin had built a following with his criticism of how Russia’s military leaders had managed the war, he saw no sharp upswing in support as he moved against the capital, the firm found.
“For Prigozhin’s campaign to have worked, he would have needed to see high support in Moscow,” the FilterLabs analysis said. “This did not materialize, despite his own base of support and media campaigns.”
The swing in public sentiment happened over mere weeks. Jonathan Teubner, the chief executive of FilterLabs, said that attitudes on social media, Telegram and internet forums had been trending more negative toward Sergei Shoigu, the defense minister, and more positive toward Mr. Prigozhin as recently as early June.
By the time Mr. Prigozhin launched his failed rebellion, however, that had changed, Mr. Teubner said. “He really fell hard when he turned his army toward Moscow,” Mr. Teubner said.
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www.nytimes.com

Russia-Ukraine War: Crisis Abates in Russia but Questions Remain Over Putin’s Authority

Yevgeny V. Prigozhin, the head of the Wagner mercenary group who led an uprising against the Russian military leadership, agreed to end hostilities and head to Belarus. Residents of a southwestern Russian city cheered Wagner’s forces as they left.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com
 
V

version

Well-known member
It's interesting and unsettling how effectively public opinion can be moulded. This is why I think the people who say the American anti-abortion stuff will never take hold in the UK because religion doesn't carry the same weight in our politics are mistaken. If the right really start hammering it through social media, the newspapers, GB News and the rest, their supporters will take it up.
 
mixed_biscuits

mixed_biscuits

_________________________
version said:
It's interesting and unsettling how effectively public opinion can be moulded. This is why I think the people who say the American anti-abortion stuff will never take hold in the UK because religion doesn't carry the same weight in our politics are mistaken. If the right really start hammering it through social media, the newspapers, GB News and the rest, their supporters will take it up.
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Could it be, Version, could it possibly be, Version, could it be that this PR, this spin, this manipulation of opinion and emotion is always everywhere the case and that is why you, Version, an apparently largely sane and reasonable person, has come to accept a moral abomination rather than see it for what it truly is.

Before the push for legalisation was instigated by eugenicists to pursue their aims, FEMINIST HERO Mary Wollstonecraft had this to say:

'Women becoming, consequently weaker, in mind and body, than they ought to be, were one of the grand ends of their being taken into the account, that of bearing and nursing children, have not sufficient strength to discharge the first duty of a mother; and sacrificing to lasciviousness the parental affection, that ennobles instinct, either destroy the embryo in the womb, or cast it off when born. Nature in every thing demands respect, and those who violate her laws seldom violate them with impunity.'

Or FEMINIST HERO Susan B Anthony, on the other side of the pond:

'The prosecutions on our courts for breach of promise, divorce, adultery, bigamy, seduction, rape; the newspaper reports every day of every year of scandals and outrages, of wife murders and paramour shooting, of abortions and infanticides, are perpetual reminders of men’s incapacity to cope successfully with this monster evil of society.'
 
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