Russia Surrounded
- Thread starter Woebot
- Start date
-
- Tags
- craner boobs disco dasha nekrasova good old obsessive antiamericanism gullfire over leningrad j. h. prynne jamaican voodoo gang from predator 2 my indian mate in year 11 with downs syndrome oliver ukrainer sanctuary of apollo shaka's secret mission snake island the black sea the good old party spirit of desert storm the gust of kiev the russo-ucranerian war wagner man falling out of the sky we're all neocons now whatabouastic whataboutery whataboutish whataboutism whataboutistic who controls the serpent
version
Well-known member
He's almost beyond parody at this point.
sus
Moderator
Stan's the best
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
At least it's the gays this time, rather than the Jews.
(Just don't get him started on gay Jews.)
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
Nutshell: NATO obv made lots of sense during Cold War as counter to Warsaw Bloc. After Cold War ended, NATO gradually expanded east. Russian leadership always hated it - even Yeltsin blew up @ Clinton multiple times over it - but couldn't do much bc Russia was such a mess, and also they were bought off with electoral and economic support. Ukraine + Georgia were a kind of a red line that everyone tacitly agreed not to cross, then in 08 GW Bush unilaterally was like "let's make Ukraine + Georgia part of NATO". Russia now in better position, promptly invaded more or less to deter former Soviet republics from joining NATO. Then a decade plus of subversion, annexation, proxy warfare, etc in Ukraine, and here we are.
What I don't understand at all is actual invasion. Gradual annexation strategy was working out great, low risk solid reward. This is madness. All I can think is, from what I've read at least, Russia may not have the military industrial capacity to project force like this in 5-10 years, so go now if you're going to go, create new client state buffer w/West. And/or maybe Putin just losing it. Gonna drive all fence-sitters directly into arms of NATO/West ASAP, wreck Russian economy, etc.
Last edited:
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
Like, I'm certainly no apologist - Putin + his cronies are fucking terrible, Russia historically has always just another shitty empire, and this war is insane and awful - but the general drift shouldn't be surprising. Russian anger at this predates Putin. Don't put the boot into your defeated enemy like we did in the 90s unless you're willing to reap the consequences. It was hubris, like many (most?) elements of the Pax Americana and the end of history were, and hubris usually ends poorly - tho here, unfortunately, those who actually made the decisions are not the same people paying for them now.
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
It's like people are forever shocked when humbled foes loss that humility once they're back on their feet. every time, like it's some new development in human affairs.
It is beginning to look like this was a huge miscalculation, not just strategically and politically, but in terms of capability. The Russians are sacrificing some of their best troops in doomed airborne and amphibious assaults without fire support, going against years of military doctrine. Armoured columns lost and running out of fuel in the countryside, soldiers stealing and begging for food only 48 hours into the campaign, dazed conscripts apparently thinking they were on training maneuvers. Lack of logistical support preventing them for committing large numbers of troops for major assaults. Inability to control airspace and failure to knock out command and control. More widely, we have unprecedented political resistance at home, a major kicking diplomatically with an unusually united international community, disastrous PR campaign, even the cyber threat seems dulled. This was not well planned, despite years of anticipation and months of direct preparation.
If they don't make significant progress or change tactics soon the offensive will collapse. Presumably Putin will revert to Grozny at some point and start carpet bombing the cities.
If they don't make significant progress or change tactics soon the offensive will collapse. Presumably Putin will revert to Grozny at some point and start carpet bombing the cities.
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
I gather the UK's are about as effective as being slapped in the face with a paper napkin.
Clinamenic
Binary & Tweed
The ones under consideration by US and the ones jointly by US/NATO seem quite harsh, harsh enough to even have a recoil in western economies. The big one was the threat to cut Russia out of SWIFT, which apparently some European nations are against because of the collateral damage. There was also another one US alone could do, and it had something to do with preventing payments from Russian banks and entities from ultimately clearing through US payment systems, but I really don't know how that would work.
I'm hoping US/NATO will manage to focus the sanctions just on Putin's circle, but the damage will probably trickle down.
And also Putin said a while back that if Russia got cut out of SWIFT, it would be interpreted as a declaration of war.
Clinamenic
Binary & Tweed
I don;'t get access to this article, but there may be good details as to how a SWIFT exclusion could be approved by European nations.
www.bloomberg.com
U.S., Europe Cut Some Russian Banks From SWIFT: Ukraine Update
Western nations agreed to exclude some Russian banks from the SWIFT messaging system, used for trillions of dollars worth of transactions between banks around the world, further isolating Russia’s economy and financial system.
www.bloomberg.com
wektor
Well-known member
Yeah those are the ones I have heard about, my question is, has anything been implemented already apart from some companies blocking their websites in Russia? ie. Pornhub