Russia Surrounded

[Mr. Tea]

harder to beleive it can be anything but theatre from the lodge when it looks like this

You're saying people who go on the telly tend to be well-groomed and have polished smiles?

I'm starting to understand how your reputation as an omniscient guru came about.

 

[luka]

you're so weird. just concede the point like a normal person and get on with your day.

 

[Mr. Tea]

you're so weird. just concede the point like a normal person and get on with your day.

SHAN'T.

If the overall aim is to inculcate an 'air of unreality', then why report any real news at all? Why would anyone care whether Orthodox Israelis are ripping down adverts with swimwear models on them, if it may be true or not? Why even care whether Trump had some restricted documents or whether Russia has invaded Ukraine if it may be true or not? Let's just get back to the trustworthy-looking man with the square jaw and the pretty lady with the big hair.

 

[wg-]

Surely the air of unreality is something that has developed via a humans natural cynicism as news channels become more commodified and entertainment based as opposed to an mass-media led inoculation

No doubt you would look at Fox News and- rightly - say look at these mad cunts why are they generating intentional falsehoods to indoctrinate their gullible right-wing audience. Your impulse is left/centre-leaning, you are allowed to hate that and see it there

But the media models have all followed this route so the manufactured reality and motivation is everywhere

Look at the Russian channels treatment of Wagner guy versus a month ago. It is standard operating procedure

 

[luka]

SHAN'T.

If the overall aim is to inculcate an 'air of unreality',

this isn't the point i'm making but what with you being thick, you've missed it.

 

[luka]

i'm not suggesting for a second that the aim is to inculcate an air of unreality, or even that there is an aim. im saying that there is an air of unreality, and it is this air that contributes to people's belief that the entire spectacle is a stage-managed fiction.

 

[DannyL]

Surely the air of unreality is something that has developed via a humans natural cynicism as news channels become more commodified and entertainment based as opposed to an mass-media led inoculation

No doubt you would look at Fox News and- rightly - say look at these mad cunts why are they generating intentional falsehoods to indoctrinate their gullible right-wing audience. Your impulse is left/centre-leaning, you are allowed to hate that and see it there

But the media models have all followed this route so the manufactured reality and motivation is everywhere

Look at the Russian channels treatment of Wagner guy versus a month ago. It is standard operating procedure

Yeah, but this leads to the BBC is just the same as GB News is just the same as Alex Jones which is not an accurate or truthful position. The BBC for sure has it's biases but it's not as equivalently untruthful.

 

[luka]

it's not the only contributing factor. we know about troll armies, bots, paid shills, spin-doctors, managing the news cycle, flooding the zone with shit. we know about think tanks and dark money. we know that the media is owned by a handful of incredibly wealthy interests. we know that intelligence agencies have their men and women embedded in news agencies. we know about the collusion between media, tech and telecommunications companies with intelligence agencies and the military. we know that advertising money and shared financial interests skews the news agenda. we know about cover-ups and conspiracies. we know about dodgy dossiers. we know about Christopher Steele. we know about Dr David Kelly. We know about the NSA and Five Eyes. we know about the Teaching Machine.

i'm not saying the entire spectacle should be treated as a elaborately stage-managed fiction but i know some of the reasons why people eventually draw that conclusion. it involves ignoring a mass of awkward, contradictory evidence. it seems to involve a massive paranoid, intuitive, idealising and simplifying leap. but i can see how you can arrive there.

 

[luka]

you can read an account of the process from someone who fell into a totalising, conspiratorial mindset before squirming out of it here

Groupname for Grapejuice

groupnameforgrapejuice.blogspot.com

 

[shiels]

Yeah personally I find that paranoid/solipsistic epistemology fascinating, because on one level it seems borne of a widespread and largely warranted distrust of institutions, but on the other hand it also seems to involve an unwillingness to actually process information and arrive at informed opinions. I suspect it is also attributable to something like a societal growing pains with globalized information overload, EG its easier to keep track of your neighborhood events than global events.

UFO debunker Mick West talking about the whistleblower used the phrase 'crippled epistemology' to describe the secretive environment of intelligence agencies and the overly complicated structure of clearance ... which leads to people who cant get access to certain knowledge filling in gaps with what they want to believe. You can see the same thing happen in the wider info-sphere, but the obscured knowledge is down to instability, lack of trust, active disinfo, conspiracy

 

[luka]

UFO debunker Mick West talking about the whistleblower used the phrase 'crippled epistemology' to describe the secretive environment of intelligence agencies and the overly complicated structure of clearance ... which leads to people who cant get access to certain knowledge filling in gaps with what they want to believe. You can see the same thing happen in the wider info-sphere, but the obscured knowledge is down to instability, lack of trust, active disinfo, conspiracy

yes, ive explained that to tea several times over the last 20 years but he never really takes anything in. that's essentially why such wild vortexes of impotent rage swirl around him, why he's an unparalleled locus of hate and anger, becasue he can't hear anything, he can't take anything in. people get madder and madder and more and more unhinged trying to crack his skull. but you can't it's impenetrable.

you get a related phenomenen with corpsey where he whinges about his problems, his inertia, his listless wanking etc so everyone wants to give him advice, help him, guide him, lead him out of darkenes,, but he'll never go along with you. that's why those two are such powerful focal figures on the forum in my analysis.

 

[Mr. Tea]

No doubt you would look at Fox News and- rightly - say look at these mad cunts why are they generating intentional falsehoods to indoctrinate their gullible right-wing audience. Your impulse is left/centre-leaning, you are allowed to hate that and see it there

Well yes, anyone who isn't a right-wing fruitloop is going to look at Fox's ideology with revulsion, but it shouldn't be a matter of opinion whether, for example, Trump lost the 2020 election. It's an objective fact that it happened. But the balance of opinion among right-wing Americans is not that it happened and was regrettable, but that it didn't happen at all.

What's ironic is that it was left-wing academics who first articulated the theoretical underpinnings of postmodernism, and the right that has incorporated it into a big lump of things it doesn't like, that was called political correctness in the 90s, then became a sort of Protocols of the Elders of Zion 2.0 called cultural Marxism, and is now mainly called 'wokeism' or the 'woke mind virus', but it's overwhelmingly the right that has benefited from the shift towards a culture where belief defines reality, and whoever shouts the loudest or spends the most on ads or has the slickest or most attractive news readers gets to determine what reality actually is.

 

[Mr. Tea]

i'm not suggesting for a second that the aim is to inculcate an air of unreality, or even that there is an aim. im saying that there is an air of unreality, and it is this air that contributes to people's belief that the entire spectacle is a stage-managed fiction.

OK, but as a card-carrying member of the nothing-happens-by-accident crew, you must surely concede that this 'air of unreality' is coming from somewhere, it's probably not entirely accidental or coincidental, and if some factions or interests are contributing to it more than others, it's presumably because it assists their overall aims in some way.

 

[luka]

a lot of what the right does it takes from the left, that's true. a large portion of the left always claimed that bush jnr lost the second election. i can't remember the details. something about hanging chits?

 

[luka]

OK, but as a card-carrying member of the nothing-happens-by-accident crew, you must surely concede that this 'air of unreality' is coming from somewhere, it's probably not entirely accidental or coincidental, and if some factions or interests are contributing to it more than others, it's presumably because it assists their overall aims in some way.

no, this is a caricature of me that you invented a few years ago. you never talk to me but only to this caricature that you made up all by yourself.

 

[HMGovt’s Glorious Return!]

You're saying people who go on the telly tend to be well-groomed and have polished smiles?

I'm starting to understand how your reputation as an omniscient guru came about.

He's a Vanderbilt

 

[HMGovt’s Glorious Return!]

Yeah, but this leads to the BBC is just the same as GB News is just the same as Alex Jones which is not an accurate or truthful position. The BBC for sure has it's biases but it's not as equivalently untruthful.

When has Alex Jones ever been wrong?

 

[HMGovt’s Glorious Return!]

The Anne Heche video is one of the murkiest things to have been accidentally captured recently. Look into it.

 

[sufi]

This is a super-interesting observation, blindingly obvious in hindsight like all the best super-interesting observations

as always, 9/11 seems like the basic breaking point with reality from which this kind of worldview culturally flows

What was it about 9/11 that created that inflection point?

Obviously the impact of the global TV coverage - the audacious spectacular deliberately exploiting the "where were you when it happened" instinct we have
And this amazingly photogenic attack was almost completely out of the blue, so all the stories about it have been constructed retrospectively, and are all propagandised,
so it was an ideal action for the end of TV era and the dawn of the internet,
like depression or schizoid symptoms suffered by victims of random violence, there's a sort of social PTSD. I mentioned before somewhere how the media can't seem to help itself from promoting more and more horrific tales and images, like uncontrollable intrusive thoughts

How far was this effect anticipated or even intended by OBL, the westernised saudi incel tycoon, his consciousness expressing itself thru cinematic horror and disaster created an infectious malaise. I guess there was a general intention to shock and traumatise and stir up conventional wars - (the Americans did quietly leave Saudi after smashing up 1/2 the region), and there must be something about those unacknowledged defeats playing out over decades that stokes paranoia and doomthinking, maybe doublethink can be sustained indefinitely but it produces social incontinence

i was just thinking about doing a thread on plane crashes actually

 

[HMGovt’s Glorious Return!]

Why is UK TV drama so helplessly obsessed with child murder, or abduction and rape? These drama must be pulling huge numbers, but it indicates what a nation of sick, voyeuristic fucks we/they've become. I never watch that shit, I'm more about walking tours of Rome on BBC4 or Portillo discovering the Pyrenees. Or Gardeners World, or Wildlife of Cuba. Pretty sure I've the most vigorous mental health on here as a result.