Election incoming

[version]

Is it really that pronounced?

 

[IdleRich]

I dunno the figures on this (obviously) but a number of my friends are kinda worried. People I trust. I mean, they're not idiots, there are some genuine warning signs for them. Puts them in an extremely difficult position now.

 

[version]

I know a couple of elderly Jewish people, but I don't know what they think of him. A guy I know around my age is a supporter and stood as a Labour candidate a few years back. This is all anecdotal though and I haven't seen anything in the way of figures/polling.

 

[luka]

Yeah but fortunately there's not that many of them so it doesn't really matter, as luka told me.

Good point. There's only a few thousand of them.

 

[DannyL]

Is it really that pronounced?

It's 85% to be exact.

https://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/...s-think-jeremy-corbyn-is-antisemitic-1.469654

It's a weird phenomena. Hard to discuss because it's so emotive and there are so many moving parts. I find it hard to think of Corbyn as any kind of racist but I do think they've mismanaged it. Shutting it down with accusations of fake news etc. To some degree this is true, 'cos it is being weaponised against him by people who wouldn't give a fuck about anti-semitism normally. But that positioning in turn turns into kind of shutting down of a community's concerns which is not good.

The Jewish Labour Movement aren't gonna campaign for Labour for the first time ever: https://labourlist.org/2019/10/jewi...fuses-to-campaign-for-most-labour-candidates/

 

[DannyL]

Another strand to it is conspiracism. Momentum put out this video. Which is on one hand to their credit, but on the other, surely points to a bit of a problem? I think any mass movement with a critique of power has to watch out for this stuff. Some people's critiques are a bit too... easy.

 

[DannyL]

I went on a JC4PM Facebook page when the mods were going "guys tone it down with the Rothschild stuff" and people were NOT HAPPY let me tell you.

 

[Mr. Tea]

Good point. There's only a few thousand of them.

Barely a rounding error in the scheme of things.

And of course it's a good point - it's yours!

 

[version]

Something which threw me off re: the accusations of antisemitism against Corbyn personally was a comment from an editor for The Jewish Chronicle where he claimed that Corbyn's referring to bankers crashing the economy in '08 and being bailed out was antisemitic then when a few people responded negatively he said that fair enough, it probably wasn't but you can't blame him for thinking that because Corbyn's an antisemite.

It just seemed hysterical and looked as though he'd basically set up a position where even if what he highlighted as an example of Corbyn's antisemitism was debunked, it didn't matter because it was obvious that he was antisemitic anyway.

 

[Leo]

it's not always what people say. it's what they don't say, when they look the other way and let things slide.

 

[DannyL]

Yeah, It's weird. Anti-semitism is often a naive critique of power anyway, "the socialism of fools" as the saying goes. If you have a mass movement that is critiquing power in a sometimes conspiratorial way, it's hard to stop that crossing over into anti-semitism I think. Especially with the open would of Israel/Palestine.
Thought this was a really decent piece, I've linked to it before: https://www.newstatesman.com/politi...itism-corbynism-must-change-way-it-sees-world

 

[version]

Thought this was a really decent piece, I've linked to it before: https://www.newstatesman.com/politi...itism-corbynism-must-change-way-it-sees-world

You able to paste this? It won't let me read it.

 

[baboon2004]

Both things are true - Corbyn has been smeared relentlessly, and he has looked the other way when it's suited him. And the confusing thing about the whole antisemitic Labour scandal is that there are so many totally different issues mixed up in one - it refers to so many disparate cases/events.

One thing I do wish is that people in the left-wing public eye would start to talk about the 'Israeli government' rather than 'Israel' - the needless lack of clarity doesn't help anyone.

 

[version]

The accusations of Islamophobia in the Tory party seem to have been handled completely differently.

 

[DannyL]

I can't atm - read my quota of NS articles this month. If you google Pitts Bolton Corbyn anti semitism it should come up.

I think there's less stuff bundled in with the Tories racism - it's less complex and it hasn't got a social media wildfire of accusation and denial keeping it going - and then there's absolutely the institutional bias that let's them off the hook. Would be interesting to see what happened if prominent Muslim community bodies started taking them to task though.

 

[sufi]

quota of NS articles

Use firefox reader mode

 

[version]

I get the impression there's more islamophobia among members of the public than there is antisemitism too which probably plays a part.

 

[IdleRich]

Yeah it's what you don't say. I don't think Corbyn sits at home dreaming of gas chambers but he doesn't see anything wrong when his friends draw a picture of loads of long-nosed subhumans grabbing all the money. Probably partly cos of his history with Palestine.

 

[IdleRich]

Of course being anti-Israel doesn't mean you're racist... but a lot of people use that argument as a disguise.

 

[subvert47]

this is also worth reading:

https://www.jacobinmag.com/2019/10/labour-party-antisemitism-claims-jeremy-corbyn