If what Butler is saying could be said clearly, someone would have said it clearly by now. For my part, I try to make Butler and her influence more accessible to the masses. I'm a popularizer of philosophy, like Bryan Magee!Butler's writing seems itself exclusionary. It's the kind of stuff the majority of people will have to go through specific higher education in order to understand.
If what Butler is saying could be said clearly, someone would have said it clearly by now.
Drake also considers himself a Male LesbianExamples of Male Lesbians include Spike Jonze, Charlie Kaufman, Chris Claremont, Eugene Levy, Greg Weisman, Joss Whedon, Robert Smigel, Warren Spector, Alan Moore, Neil Gaiman, Jerry Lynn, Bryan Danielson, Jim Cornette, Mick Foley, Bruce Timm, Paul Dini, Matt Hensley, Keith Hufnagel, Ray Barbee and Ed Templeton.
Once we can recognize that our perspectives are male ones, we can begin to imagine what the feminine perspective looks like and hopefully express our image of femininity in a concrete cultural artefact.
Drake also considers himself a Male Lesbian
So how are you actually doing that? Really, that's the only thing that interests me nowadays.
I've been through a theoretical phase as well btw. My own blog – male femme – was an attempt to work through ideas and feelings related to straight male femininity. I still agree with most of what I've written there, though it seems almost quaint to me now, so obvious I wonder why I even bothered to write it down. But gender is a journey as much as anything. We have to start somewhere. I no longer identify as either male or straight.
But there were two words I purposely avoided using: "feminine" and "lesbian". The latter because it relates specifically to women's same-sex attraction; I regarded it as both appropriative and inappropriate for a man to claim that word. The former because it comes with all sorts of cultural baggage – in particular that feminine/masculine correlate with female/male – which I categorically reject.
The butch/femme paradigm worked much better for me, because it circumvents male/female altogether. (Implicitly so, because it comes from same-sex relationships where there is only one sex involved.) And also because it's about both gender and sexuality, which are very much intertwined, at least for me. This stuff is ultimately personal. There's only one thing on my blog that I believe to be universally applicable and it's this:
"You can't speak for anyone else on these matters. You can't tell people who they are, what they are, why they are. One, because it's rude. Two, because most of the time you'll be wrong. This is a common mistake. Having reached an understanding (usually hard won) of who we are as individuals, and being so convinced of its correctness for ourselves, we assume that it must be correct for everyone else. It isn't."
Or as Patrick Califia put it: “The best we can do is speak our own truth, make it safe for others to speak theirs, and respect our differences.”
I try to represent the feminine perspective in my art and my philosophy. I can tell you about my art if you want, but in this thread I've mostly talked about my philosophy.
I'm more interested in how you enact your philosophy in your own life. How are you actually being, or trying to be, more feminine?
But failing that, yes, tell us about your art.
I can't believe you lot let this one slide. You're getting lazy, you know? I'm still not convinced this thread isn't you all getting pissy with a large language model. There's no trace of humor in it all, hard to believe it's kept you occupied so long.I meant Joss Whedon in his creative output is a male lesbian. His abusive tendencies have nothing to do with his male lesbianism. It's hard to deny Buffy is a mix of feminine and masculine culture, since it interweaves masculine action and feminine, soap-opera-like melodrama.
For the "male lesbian," as the incel, love exists as a utopia. The two ideologies are in fact almost identical—however, where the incel chooses outward-directed rage and hatred, the "male lesbian" chooses an internalization of hatred. It is merely a pre-fall version of the same thesis.I mean I do think that emotional availability and a general attitude of sensitivity toward the experiences of others count as practical applications of my philosophy. I get that my descriptions seem abstract, but I am trying to discuss concrete practices. In my life, many men have taken a callous, insensitive stance toward their emotions. How many people here will say their experience for the most part differed from mine? Too many men sever their feelings from their persons. Look at how the manosphere appeals to hyper-rational rhetoric. Everything is a tactic, a ploy, a means to the end of getting what you want. But I interrogate male desire. I ask, are the things men want worth wanting? That is why I claim women symbolically align with non-instrumental, Kantian ethical rationality. Because we need unconditional reasons to want what we want or else we just want them arbitrarily. Independent of any goal, I feel for others. I exhibit a willingness to engage the feelings of others, I offer empathy and sympathy, pathos. My emotional openness and availability count as pragmatic examples of my femininity.
One way we can be more feminine is by having more constructive discussions and less arguments. I see a lot of toxic masculinity in the tendency to debate everything, to always have to go against any view presented other than one's own. Arguments are just fine but we don't always have to disagree.
Finally, I embrace a romantic attitude that promotes unconditional love, love that respects the Other as an end in herself, and which loves her for the sake of loving her and no other goal. There's never been any strong romantic current in internet culture. I like to write romantic poetry.
+1 for "lesbian-academic industrial complex"I can't believe you lot let this one slide. You're getting lazy, you know? I'm still not convinced this thread isn't you all getting pissy with a large language model. There's no trace of humor in it all, hard to believe it's kept you occupied so long.
Anyway, Whedon's abusive tendencies are obviously exactly and precisely linked to his "male lesbianism." He's got one of the least healthy ideas about how to interact with women in the world, and you think that doesn't manifest in the art?
The political project comes from a place of fear of rejection—Whedon is petrified of his symbolic castration, of the scorn of women. Not only is the "feminine symbolism" clearly load-bearing when it comes to hiding his behavior towards women, but it's also rooted in the same situation—he fears women's rage, and so he simultaneously seeks to ingratiate himself publicly while dealing with potential threats (ie, women) by exerting the maximum of his personal power.
That's the sad thing about Buffy, you know—it's nine seasons of soft porn of a woman being stuck in a job in which someone else has power over her, and that's a lot of why it appealed so extensively to the lesbian-academic industrial complex—there's something of being an academic with tenure and a partner who you can't marry because it's illegal that mirrors that, that finds refuge in a bondage fantasy.
I have never heard of Buffy not being a feminist work.
> In February 2021, Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Angelactress Charisma Carpenter alleged that Whedon had "abused his power on numerous occasions", calling him a "vampire" and "casually cruel". In a tweeted statement, Carpenter said that Whedon had called her "fat" and asked her "if [she] was going to keep it" upon learning of her pregnancy, mocked her religious faith, and repeatedly threatened to fire her, which he ultimately did.
I don't see how a work of art can be considered feminist when this is what goes into it. And I don't think it's reasonable to pretend that none of that makes it into the final product. The trademark quality of Buffy is the performances that Whedon elicits—given that it's supernatural fantasy-horror, there's an undertone of fear and discomfort. I think that looks different—indeed, it's a different show—when you realize it's probably a response to the director as much as anything else.Buffy co-stars Amber Benson and Michelle Trachtenberg corroborated Carpenter's allegations. On social media, Benson wrote: "Buffy was a toxic environment and it starts at the top. [Carpenter] is speaking truth". Trachtenberg wrote that "we know what he did" and alleged that his behavior toward her when she was a teenager was "Very. Not. Appropriate." Trachtenberg later stated on social media that there was a rule on set preventing Whedon from being in a room alone with her. Buffy star Sarah Michelle Gellar also lent her support and distanced herself from Whedon.
I actually think that generally, men aren't very good at making art specifically about the experiences of women. I don't think it's the best thing to encourage. Maybe Elena Ferrante, but there are rumors there was a co-writer. Definitely it's no good to seek plaudits for one's mere decency.Who is your male feminist alternative to Whedon?
Please consider being normal, being friends with women, and having a nice time chatting instead. Maybe buy them a cute souvenier you see on vacation. Make dinner with one of them and listen to some tunes. Tell a woman a funny story.If unconditional romance and reciprocal emotional receptivity aren't antidotes to incel ideology, what is? If praising femininity, and trying to empower and embody the feminine elements in our culture still amounts to misogyny, what in the world does loving women look like?
I don't see why you think I internalize hatred. Idealistic as it is, the male lesbian theory is one of endless free love. I have some pretty dark views about society, but my views about the male lesbian are my take on the bright side of life.
This is what I meant when I was talking about "male lesbianism" as "load-bearing." A viewpoint that acts as a bulwark can't be distinguished from the views that make it necessary; there is a hidden shadow half of your ideology. If you want to feel free, you need to explore that other half.Although I am a deeply depressed person, male lesbianism is one of the few things in life that makes me happy, along with Bob Dylan, the Second City, the Harvard Lampoon, and Warren Spector. Male lesbianism passes that litmus test for me. Without male lesbianism, I have nothing.
Toxic masculinity is an unhealthy relationship to women. The question of how to find something better is very much the question of how to find a healthy relationship to women.having a healthy relationship with women and fighting the manosphere. Your post had nothing to do with fighting the toxic masculinity overflowing through our culture.
Who do you think Buffy is about?Who said anything about men writing about the experiences of woman? I was talking about men representing femininity in works of feminist fiction.