Films you've seen recently and would unreservedly recommend:

[IdleRich]

"There's been an element of pastiche about noir ever since Play It Again Sam, a very deliberate tinkering with the archetype. Doesn't have to be as out-and-out as something like Brick - even, say, Long Goodbye has that about it."

Well I think that's something like what was being implied further up in the thread by some and I think that that why the Queenan quote reminded me of it. I think that maybe I would agree with that to some extent but there seems to be a very honest and serious quality to it in older films which maybe was lacking in Millers Crossing. I really liked Brick though so maybe I'm just making up reasons to justify what I feel instinctively.

 

[slim jenkins]

Miller's Crossing is based on Red Harvest by Hammett and contains many of noir's most enduring themes - femme fatale, endless double crossing, honest-man-in-dishonest-world. You're right, though, it is fantastic. TMWWT I don't like, though - seemed like an attempt to take the title too literally, and though it was alll played out well, I was struggling to really give a fuck, because BBT was just so blank (which was the point, obv, but it just showed you why filmmakers don't generally put emotional voids at the film's core).

Did you not like No Country...? I loooooove that film, best I've seen in, oooh, years.

Because of the period and absence of a detective at the heart of the story I don't see 'Miller's Crossing' as 'film noir', although the genre doesn't have to have a gumshoe as it's hero, of course. I didn't know it was based on 'Red Harvest', which is about a detective and a corrupt town. As you know, double-crossing in a dishonest world and women getting men into trouble is a theme that goes back to the early gangster pics. But they aren't really 'noir'.

Chandler was a writer who really brought pulp and Hollywood together although, as fans of the man would say, he transformed 'pulp fiction' into something else.

I thought TMWWT was fantastic because of BBT's performance and the tragic, doomed quality he brought to the role. That's classic noir from fiction when you think of, say, James M Cain. I think the 'void' is a place viewers can peer into to see the dark despair and world-weary resignation, perhaps, of BBT's character.

I loved NCFOM for it's darkness. My only criticism is that they didn't place enough emphasis on the cop's view of the world gone so bad. In the book that comes across very strongly.

 

[slim jenkins]

I think that maybe I would agree with that to some extent but there seems to be a very honest and serious quality to it in older films which maybe was lacking in Millers Crossing. I really liked Brick though so maybe I'm just making up reasons to justify what I feel instinctively.

I know what you mean, Rich, but isn't that because the older films are reflecting their times whereas the modern homage to those times and that style of film making cannot help but be self-conscious and aware that they are replaying an era and genre? What I love about the Coens is that they do is so well, managing to be 'post-modern'(?) without lapsing into terrible parody or wry cleverness? 'Dead Men Don't Wear Plaid' is another approach, of course. 'Chinatown' perhaps being the daddy of all 'modern' nods towards a bygone era/genre.

 

[crackerjack]

Because of the period and absence of a detective at the heart of the story I don't see 'Miller's Crossing' as 'film noir', although the genre doesn't have to have a gumshoe as it's hero, of course. I didn't know it was based on 'Red Harvest', which is about a detective and a corrupt town. As you know, double-crossing in a dishonest world and women getting men into trouble is a theme that goes back to the early gangster pics. But they aren't really 'noir'.

'Loosely inspired by' might be more accurate than 'based on', but the similaritites are there (rather like Big Lebowski/Big Sleep - though in this case, more to do with teh general tone of the story, playing two sides of a corrupt town against each other). To me, noir differs from other films in that it takes rottenness and corruption as a given. People are dirty, bar the odd exception (usually the tec, and maybe his secretary). Hence the need for the femme fatale - women being the moral root of so many old films

In gangster films, people are driven to crime through economic depression and bad influences. But there's usually a way back to redemption (literally in Angels With Dirty Faces) and it's often a woman showing the way. Sure, there are bad women in gangster movies, but they're usually dumb, grasping molls, not scheming FFs, which is why they end up getting pies stuffed in their faces.

 

[sub-rosa]

I recently saw Zulawski's On the Silver Globe, which was great. I found the performances, dialogues and settings bizarrely similar to Kozintsev's Hamlet and King Lear.

 

[IdleRich]

"I recently saw Zulawski's On the Silver Globe, which was great. I found the performances, dialogues and settings bizarrely similar to Kozintsev's Hamlet and King Lear."

But didn't you also find it incredibly frustrating in that about half the film is missing? One minute you're in the middle of some amazingly ambitious sci-fi epic, the next you're dragged out of that, watching pictures of people using the underground while the director says "what would have happened next is there would be a big space battle and the space ship would crash and then some guys would be on this new planet and they would be being chased - let's rejoin the action". The film would have been about six hours long if the whole thing had been made wouldn't it? Or is it just some kind of massive post-modern joke and in reality that's the film was supposed to be made?
Either way it's totally demented, the performances are completely over the top, the way it looks is amazing and in bits it drags you right in. I love the imagery in the battle scenes or when they are travelling through the deserted landscapes in their space suits or when all those people are impaled on massive poles and the camera kind of swoops in on them until it finally finds the guy ranting as his guts run down his leg or when one person returns from the other side of the sea shouting about weird creatures that have killed all his friends. Just wish the whole thing was there - I completely lost the immersion necessary to remain caught up in the film by the end.

 

[sub-rosa]

But didn't you also find it incredibly frustrating in that about half the film is missing? One minute ...

Well, I had braced myself for the worst so it's wasn't that frustrating I think the movie could be too maximalist or predictably epical if it had survived in one piece. The cuts could be performed better but still they gave the movie some sort of exciting time warp. I agree with you about the imagery. The crucifixion scene was so simple but way better than any thing depicted so far. It was genius to combine urban warfare landscape of block eastern partisan movies with R'lyeh. The scene with impaled people was frightening, it reminds me of a similar scene in Vlad Tepes. But overall I think Possession was a better movie. Have you seen Szamanka too? It's an ok Zulawski's movie with Polish stars, though the recurring music is pretty annoying.

 

[IdleRich]

"Well, I had braced myself for the worst so it's wasn't that frustrating I think the movie could be too maximalist or predictably epical if it had survived in one piece. The cuts could be performed better but still they gave the movie some sort of exciting time warp."

I dunno, I don't think predictable would have been a word I would have reached for in any sense. Certainly gave it a time warp but I found it annoying that you're suddenly thrust into the middle of a story with a new protagonist - especially when all the bits that were missing sounded amazing. That's part of what made me wonder if it was a hoax, the scenes that were missing would have been very spectacular, maybe he just wanted to save money. On the other hand it's also conceivable that he might have been saving them to shoot later.

"It was genius to combine urban warfare landscape of block eastern partisan movies with R'lyeh"

I don't know what that word means I'm afraid.

"The scene with impaled people was frightening, it reminds me of a similar scene in Vlad Tepes."

What's that then?

"But overall I think Possession was a better movie. Have you seen Szamanka too? It's an ok Zulawski's movie with Polish stars, though the recurring music is pretty annoying."

I do too but maybe Silver Globe could have been better which is what makes it all the more frustrating. I haven't seen Szamanka beyond some clips on youtube - how about Diabel, I fancy checking that out when I can afford it.

 

[sub-rosa]

I don't know what that word means I'm afraid.

Which one?

What's that then?

That's a rather famous Romanian arthouse historical movie on Vlad the Impaler, quite disturbing but beautifully made. It is one of the few sick movies which have given me a headache!

I do too but maybe Silver Globe could have been better which is what makes it all the more frustrating. I haven't seen Szamanka beyond some clips on youtube - how about Diabel, I fancy checking that out when I can afford it.

I think Szamanka was a great concept but they were some flaws in the direction. Basically, the entire movie happens in frantic movements from one place to another, giving a certain conceptual dimension to the movie which ties well into the idea of Shamanism. It also has a crazy nuclear explosion with siren sound which is very similar to possession's last scene. I've heard the main actress had a mental breakdown after the movie!!!

I saw 'The Devil' years ago, as far as I can remember it is a 'very cold' movie.

 

[IdleRich]

R'lyeh

Dunno what that means but I'm sure I'm missing something obvious.

"That's a rather famous Romanian arthouse historical movie on Vlad the Impaler, quite disturbing but beautifully made. It is one of the few sick movies which have given me a headache!"

I'm not sure if that's a recommendation but I looked it up anyway and it sounds interesting so I will check it.

"I think Szamanka was a great concept but they were some flaws in the direction. Basically, the entire movie happens in frantic movements from one place to another, giving a certain conceptual dimension to the movie which ties well into the idea of Shamanism. It also has a crazy nuclear explosion with siren sound which is very similar to possession's last scene. I've heard the main actress had a mental breakdown after the movie!!!
I saw 'The Devil' years ago, as far as I can remember it is a 'very cold' movie."

Well, I liked his other films so much I'm gonna check his others eventually I guess.

 

[sub-rosa]

Dunno what that means but I'm sure I'm missing something obvious.

That's the city of Cthulhu in H.P. Lovecraft's mythos. In Zulawski's movie when the survivor of the expedition returned, he described flying monsters and a city with huge buildings. Evil winged creatures, the monstrous settlement and the other side of the sea are very similar to Lovecraftian terms. But I think the concept of 'on the other side of the sea' is a Mayan / Indian thing which refers to the land of creation and Apocalypse where colonialist conquistadors eventually came from.

I'm not sure if that's a recommendation but I looked it up anyway and it sounds interesting so I will check it.

It wasn't really a recommendation, but it's an interesting movie, very brutal though. I recommended a movie here a while ago, I guess you will like that one: Alain Tanner's Les Années lumière (light years away).

Also read your posts on Zulawski's Possession, I have another interpretation of the ending which I will share later.

 

[mistersloane]

Saw The Unnameable last night, Lovecraft adaptaion

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0096344/

which was good, mainly for the monster. I was hoping they wouldn't show it (1988, uh-oh bad monster possibility) but when it does come in, it's fantastic.

Got 'Psychos in Love' to watch tonight. I'm right on a gorefest.

 

[IdleRich]

I watched Birds, Orphans and Fools the other day and that was pretty good. Kind of reminded me of some cross between maybe Daisies and Sweet Movie. Not as aggressively in your face as the latter but something about the infantilism of the three main characters was similar. It's about three orphaned people who live together in an abandoned building filled with birds - two men and their female guest - and the situation becomes a sort of skewed love triangle. Crazy camera angles and fast subtitles made it quite difficult to follow at first but it's always interesting and colourful. I guess the film is a kind of comment on war (and presumably communism) and how madness may be a, if not the only, logical response, and it was duly banned of course when it came out in the late sixties. The film turns darker as it goes on and the ending was surprisingly effective in its poignancy.

http://www.allcluesnosolutions.com/index.php?productID=305

 

[Corpsey]

Saw Gomorrah today, very powerful. Quite slowly paced and less violent than I expected - but the violence was shocking, perhaps because of the sense of realism the rest of the film creates.

Watched The Texas Chainsaw Massacre yesterday on Youtube, which was probably quite an appropriately lo-fi medium to watch it on. For what it is (a slap in the face) it's fantastic. There's something extremely filthy about it all, and even the fact that the burgers-to-be are bland as bovines and probably deserve to be hung on meathooks doesn't detract from the horror of imagining being hung on a meathook.

 

[crackerjack]

Saw Gomorrah today, very powerful. Quite slowly paced and less violent than I expected - but the violence was shocking, perhaps because of the sense of realism the rest of the film creates.

Just been to see it and I was so disappointed. Well shot, well acted (if that's the right word - half the people there looked like they were playing themselves), documentary realism down pat, but there was no sodding arc whatsoever.

I saw Elephant the other night - not the Van sant/Columbine thing, but a 45 min Alan Clarke film set in N Ireland during which is just a load of people shooting each other - literally, one execution after another, with barely a word said (I think one gets to say "oh shit" as he realises what's happening), 20-30 murders in 45 mins. I found that more moving than Gomorrah.

 

[Mr. Tea]

Watched The Texas Chainsaw Massacre yesterday on Youtube, which was probably quite an appropriately lo-fi medium to watch it on. For what it is (a slap in the face) it's fantastic. There's something extremely filthy about it all, and even the fact that the burgers-to-be are bland as bovines and probably deserve to be hung on meathooks doesn't detract from the horror of imagining being hung on a meathook.

Really? I remember finding it a little bit underwhelming, though this was possibly because it's just so venerated in the horror canon it would be virtually impossible for any film to live up to that level of expectation. Or maybe it's the way it defined so many horror tropes (which became clichés) for the decades to come - the whole 'clueless teenagers get lost in the boondocks' idea for a start - that you can't help but think of the film as derivative of the genre that's derivative of it, like someone reading The Lord Of The Rings for the first time as an adult having grown up on a diet of sword-and-sorcery pulp fantasy.

Having said that, I remember liking (if that's the right word) the deranged inbred 'family', especially Grandpa, and also the fact that it didn't rely on anything supernatural, feeding the awful feeling that there really are places like this, even in a 'civilised' country.

 

[STN]

The thing about Gomorrah was that while it was wicked, in order to show the impact of the Camorra on people's lives (which it was right to do) it had to pursue some slightly boring storylines (like that tailor bloke).

 

[Corpsey]

Just been to see it and I was so disappointed. Well shot, well acted (if that's the right word - half the people there looked like they were playing themselves), documentary realism down pat, but there was no sodding arc whatsoever.

I know what you mean, it seemed to meander around a bit. I don't know if you can excuse that by arguing that the point of a film like this is to deny the existence of story arcs (i.e. ''young hoodlums rise to the top'' becomes ''young hoodlums mess around a bit, try and rise to the top and get murdered''), only a day-to-day, almost meaningless mess of an existence... at times it did bore me a little bit, but nevertheless I'd definitely recommend going to see it. It's worth seeing it at the cinema, I think, you get a real feeling of being immersed in the housing blocks.

Agreed that the tailor story was a bit boring.

@ Mr Tea: Yes, it's all cliched and predictable (especially when, as I have, you've read what happens before watching it!) and there's almost no characterisation at all. In many ways its laughable. But something about it stuck with me afterwards... and the atmosphere of hysteria and mania it creates is effective, I think. There's not really any scenes where the victims are being stalked by the killer, or where some sort of fake shock happens - everyone dies quite quickly and the survivor spends the rest of the film screaming, running and having her finger sucked by the ghost of Micheal Jackson's future.

But I liked the way it was directed - strange cut-aways (the moon, a dying cow etc.), at other times no cutaways at all (the obvious example being when Leatherface just appears out of that door with no explanation and cracks Ham-Sandwich-Man-#1 over the head with a mallet, then slams the door)... and the soundtrack too.

It just felt completely different to any of the slasher films I've seen (a sub-genre which it arguably helped spawn). I dunno, perhaps I'm just being fooled by its reputation into thinking its not a piece of trash?

 

[crackerjack]

I know what you mean, it seemed to meander around a bit. I don't know if you can excuse that by arguing that the point of a film like this is to deny the existence of story arcs (i.e. ''young hoodlums rise to the top'' becomes ''young hoodlums mess around a bit, try and rise to the top and get murdered''), only a day-to-day, almost meaningless mess of an existence... at times it did bore me a little bit, but nevertheless I'd definitely recommend going to see it. It's worth seeing it at the cinema, I think, you get a real feeling of being immersed in the housing blocks.

Agreed that the tailor story was a bit boring.

Fair points all (esp the

day-to-day, almost meaningless mess of an existence

) and agree about being immersed in that horrible colourless legoland where they all lived. I think my gripe is more that I felt completely uninvolved with any of the characters - neither liked nor loathed, or even pitied - more than a lack of any trad Hollywood 'journey'. But it's definitely worrth seeing if you like gangster flicks, cos it's pretty well one-of-a-kind.

 

[Corpsey]

Yeah, I think you're right. Perhaps it would have been better to concentrate on one character and develop them more?

While watching it I was thinking of ''The Wire'' quite a lot. I think in that format (13 odd hours per season) there's a lot of space to develop sympathetic characters and more fully illustrate the situations they find themselves trapped in. But, as you say, if they'd sacrificed the little breadth they had, there would have been less of a sense of how huge the Comorra operation is...