Dubstep
Tentative Andy
I'm in the Meal Deal
Good question. I think that on some level it ultimately isn't any different, but the reasons people might regard them as different are probably as follows.
First of all, there's the implied class and pop/art distinctions betweent the source and the 'parasite' that will inevitably make the question a bit loaded when it comes to IDM artists/labels drawing on non-IDM sources.
Secondly - and this is probably the argument with more objective backing - with, e.g, ardcore drawing on previous house and techno, you could say that it transformed the sources in such a way that it formed new musical conventions that in turn formed the basis for a substantial new musical genre. Whilst with Planet Mu artists, the accusation would be that they draw on existing conventions just to fuel their own idiosyncratic personal projects, so it's sort of like an energy drain that doesn't lead anywhere.
That argument might have had some bite in the late 90s, but I'm not sure how relevant it is now: on the one hand, there is much more of this kind of music about, so it must have some kind of generative power that takes it beyond individual artists, and on the other hand, as Ben points out, most of the curren PM artists come from a background in concrete scenes like dubstep, where to some extent they are already established and accepted. So it becomes less accurate to talk of some small 'Planet Mu elite' that take ideas without feeding them back anywhere.
the description used only really makes me think of Venitian Snares, which ... I never really got
it's not you. more that the records are unlistenable.
viktorvaughn
Well-known member
i want some more fwd line ups
yeah but these aren't parasitic idm artists playing at dubstep, these are dubstep artists releasing on planet mu.
It's weird cos it's like saying 'what are you doing releasing/listening to that music?' and who the fuck is anyone to say that?
planet mu's been releasing dubstep and grime for about 7 years or more now, it released the first vex'd album which was probably one of the first dubstep artist releases, and the virus syndicate record which was one of the first grime artist albums.
It released the remarc comp, the bizzy b comp and the terror danjah comp, its also released stuff by venetian snares, shitmat etc, who make different (more complicated / more jokey )music from jungle or whatever but are obviously fans of the genre, like aphex etc are too.
Basically if you have a label and you like a whole different types of music then if you like you can release and support that kind of music. I dont see how that's a negative.
I think we got over the idm wars ages ago since idms kinda obselete now.
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Well, as for the first point it's hardly got anything to do with music itself does it? and regarding the 2nd, and this is why I asked the question, afaik IDM was a name chosen to call a group of musicians who didn't fit in any existing genre, it was a truly "wot do you call it" moment, and whatever you think of the music it's become clear through the years that it has its place inside edm. Also, let's remember that a great number of the US garage heads have always dismissed UK garage and they probably think of it in a similar way that jungle heads think of Squarepusher.
All I'm saying is all hate towards IDM and similars always seemed to me like a clear case of seeing the speck in another's eye but not the plank in one's own.
FairiesWearBoots
Well-known member
They've always had such a wide range & roster, they're bound to not appease everyone, I really cant get my head around the Venetian snares/over programmed stuff -
I agree with Alex on Gemmy - BT Tower was a weak version of 'Bass Transmitter'
Its a shame there arent more releases like 'Qawwalli' & the Loefah '3rd Choice' remix
I agree with Alex on Gemmy - BT Tower was a weak version of 'Bass Transmitter'
Its a shame there arent more releases like 'Qawwalli' & the Loefah '3rd Choice' remix
FairiesWearBoots
Well-known member
anyone know the line-up for FWD this Sunday 6th? had a look on the site but cant find the info and wanna reach
Yeah, fair enough, I wouldn't say that, I'll freely admit I got my facts wrong on my assumption this was drill'n'bass part 2 or like those horrible MC Hammer mash-ups or whatever else they've done in the past.
So yeah, my aside about parasitism was on the assumption their roster was largely dicks trying to "improve" on a trend in dance music by making it fiddly and complicated. I guess Tentative Andy has been there already, but since I started it, I said "parasitism" because to me it's a total one-way street to use those awesome innovations / all that vitality as your jumping off point for your own music, while you (or at least your fans?) are also looking down your noses at it.
Lots of big "if"s in there about reading into other people's motivations, etc. I totally concede that, was just being grumpy.
Anyway, sounds like that's not what's happening with Planet Mu's roster, which is cool.
Slothrop
Tight but Polite
I think it's a bit more complicated than that, tbh.
Firstly, the use of the word 'parasitism' seems like a deliberately loaded choices of word to describe the one way traffic of influence - it's another way of saying "not only am I not particularly arsed with the music - I'm objectively right to not like it because look - it's structurally parasitic." I don't think the implied harm to dance music exists - it's not like Squarepusher was going around melting down Foul Play dubplates to make his tunes. It could equally be drawn in terms of a bunch of creative artists finding methods and ideas where they can and using them to acheive their own ends.
Also, I think the relationship with dance music is a bit more complex than just "this is rubbish, lets steal some of it and take the piss out of it." A lot of it - particularly in the early days - seems to have been people who were genuinely into a lot of dance music but for various reasons wanted to do something else or didn't feel like they'd be accepted as part of the scene (a lot of the ironic distancing in jungle samples isn't so much "oh this stuff is rubbish, I should keep myself a bit seperate from it" as "I'm a middle class white kid from Guildford, if I used ragga samples in dead earnest everyone would think I was pretending to be something I'm not").
Which isn't to say that there wasn't a lot of godawful crap talked, particularly from the fans and the later followers in the scene, although there's that horrible Squarepusher interview, too. Mainly I just think the music should stand or fall on its own merits, not on where and how it took influence.
I heard a great quote from Robert Wyatt to the effect that a lot of people saw prog asa being about public sschool boys sneering at pop music and trying to make something 'superior', but he actually loved pop and soul and really wanted to get somewhere close to that, but that what he created was inevitably filtered through who he was - a white, rural, middle class english kid with a background in jazz and classical, and that to make something that fitted in smoothly with pop or soul would have felt dishonest on his part: "you can't pretend you've never heard Elvin Jones."
Ez Guys,
So I think that I have been giving dubstep a bit of a hard time over the past year (not that it didn't deserve it in the 1st place, the naughty little genre) So after reminiscing over the D'Generate EP yesterday, I decided to do a little mix of Dubstep wonder's that I have in my collection. Obviously I never included the ones I still regularly bang out, however I did include some new stuff that I just threw in as a surprise (some old random bits too). The mix is 320 for you're listening pleasure (never normally do 320) however because I did it last night & came straight to work, there isnt a t/L, however can give you an insight into what it includes. (Hijak, Silkie, Quest, Skream, Loefah, Alot of the tunes from the D'Generate Album, Some Spatial, Some Grime ;-)
Its around an hour & a half
Hope you all enjoy
http://www.sendspace.com/file/91yz2w
(will provide a t/L later tonight)
So I think that I have been giving dubstep a bit of a hard time over the past year (not that it didn't deserve it in the 1st place, the naughty little genre) So after reminiscing over the D'Generate EP yesterday, I decided to do a little mix of Dubstep wonder's that I have in my collection. Obviously I never included the ones I still regularly bang out, however I did include some new stuff that I just threw in as a surprise (some old random bits too). The mix is 320 for you're listening pleasure (never normally do 320) however because I did it last night & came straight to work, there isnt a t/L, however can give you an insight into what it includes. (Hijak, Silkie, Quest, Skream, Loefah, Alot of the tunes from the D'Generate Album, Some Spatial, Some Grime ;-)
Its around an hour & a half
Hope you all enjoy
http://www.sendspace.com/file/91yz2w
(will provide a t/L later tonight)
Another way to read it is that it's saying "I hate this music, and here's an adjective that describes something I think is shit about it". I'm most definitely not trying to claim to be right or remotely objective in my assessment of this carry on.
... and actually...
Yeah, that's entirely fair. The Wyatt quote's great too. Totally relate. I've often tried to make my own music ruffer / less gentrified or whatever, but it always feels so totally forced and ... not me. I'm a cheery nerd from a comfortable background in quiet ol' New Zealand.
Just because I love those qualities in music I listen to doesn't mean I should go shoe-horning them into what I do.it's a fine line which can only be drawn according to specific context.
parasitism i would say is disingenuous jumping of someone else's train, not absorbing the influence and making it your own (what Eno meant with "genius steals").
whether Planet Mu falls into this or not has to be, at this point in time, largely decided subjectively, because we don't have enough distance to have a more broad and balanced perspective on the music.
but i can assuredly say for myself: thank you but no thank you. (to current as well as past output). because the entire label aesthetic is just entirely unappealing to me.
parasitism i would say is disingenuous jumping of someone else's train, not absorbing the influence and making it your own (what Eno meant with "genius steals").
whether Planet Mu falls into this or not has to be, at this point in time, largely decided subjectively, because we don't have enough distance to have a more broad and balanced perspective on the music.
but i can assuredly say for myself: thank you but no thank you. (to current as well as past output). because the entire label aesthetic is just entirely unappealing to me.