Since it's been a while since we had an Israel/Palestine thread...

T

thirdform

pass the sick bucket
mixed_biscuits said:
It's all about solidarity, @Mr. Tea: you should stand with your fellow progressive comrades in Israel rather than the ultra-conservatives of Hamas. It would make your uncle Joe happy too
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The unconscious had interpreted me. This was an occasion for he who I was to
laugh inexhaustibly, followed by the recognition in him of a machismo hidden
behind a bias towards my mother. In fact, in my childhood, when my father made my mother cry, who suffered
from his compulsive Don Juanism—which he kept like Swann until his death at the
age of 93—I definitely took her part. I was his mother’s little white knight.
The male chivalric fantasy has since been
pinned down and classified. White Knight
has recently become a term used to stigmatise the saviours of women in
distress, and all those who declare themselves to be supporters of gender equality in order to cede all
privileges to women. It is not clinicians who have isolated the phenomenon, but
male militants, defenders of a virility they believe to be under threat by the
progress of feminism. They are grouped in the masculinist movement MGTOW, for Men
Going Their Own Way.
The word 'Way' carries a lot of weight. We
remember Sinatra crooning My Way.
There is also the American idiomatic expression, “My way or the highway”. It translates as: “Take it or leave it”, “You
do as I say or get out”, etc. The expression became the title of a song by a so-called
pimp-rock band. MGTOW is in a way the
Tao of macho men.
The pimps' band is
called Limp Bizkit, and I learn by
Googling that the name is a distortion of Limp
Biscuit. Highly suggestive. For a pimp, having a limp biscuit probably
means horror, unemployment, shame. So the name is apotropaic: you ward off the
curse by the mere fact of assuming it with
pride. This is what the gays did with the insult “queer”.
There's more: while
consulting The Urban Dictionary, from
the reading of which I always derive a surplus-enjoyment because of the
extraordinary inventiveness of American street talk, I came across the
expression Penis biscuit, which
refers to a certain practice involving the foreskin. Go and see for yourself,
because, as they used to do in the old days in order to veil obscenities, I
couldn't reproduce the definition without translating it into Latin, and since my
khâgne is now a long way behind me, [8]
I don't have the vocabulary I need right now.
However, it is enough
to follow mgtow.com, the website responsible for disseminating the philosophy
of the movement and its main activities, to verify that it does indeed, as
Wikipedia says, cultivate a misogynistic, anti-feminist and hateful ideology. We
do not yet have the equivalent here in France.
I can only think of
Zemmour's speech, which could pass for the prefiguration of such a movement, or
rather for the expression of the desire for it to exist. But the French
polemicist remains a timid masculinist, who is far from showing women the same loathing
he has for minorities of colour—in a well-argued polemic, it must be admitted—
who, in his eyes, infest the country and are leading it to ruin. He sees the French
Muslims as future dominants, and he makes the kafir majority tremble by predicting that they will inexorably
become a minority. What is noticeable is that his rhetoric is modelled on that
of those de-colonials, genderqueers and woke
people whom he vows to demonise. He simply reverses it. That's the way of
the age: the same structure of thought is imposed on everyone, on you, on me.
It's the spirit of the age, the Zeitgeist.
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DOCILE TO TRANS by Jacques-Alain Miller - in English - AMP-NLS

DOCILE TO TRANS by Jacques-Alain Miller The storm has broken. The trans crisis is upon us. Trans people are in a trance (let's get that one out of the […]
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Really, if you really wanted to offend progressives, you would offer unconditional support to hamas, which no progressive has ever done. You are a pitiful victim of their thought complexes, and you beat your okra like a rash which won't go away. It's seriously pathetic by now, you can't be said to be making any point at all, and in fact your desperate and clawing attempts to pretend you are rebelling against the progressives only ever make you more and more victim to the fem-doms, and put your concerns for trans into a psy trance.
 
T

thirdform

pass the sick bucket
Clinamenic said:
I wonder, if we were to analyze the bulk of some of these leading threads, how much of the content consists of this mutually sisyphian and sexually tense back-and-forth between tea and biscuits,
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and you too. stop beating your okra like a rash and pretending you are a rebel. fem dom commodity fetish porn has killed your brain.
 
T

thirdform

pass the sick bucket
DannyL said:
Just logged

The imperative in Russia-Ukraine should be for Ukrainians to defeat Russia, otherwise they'll simply rearm and come back for another go in a few years time. Also, please point me to any conflict in recent years where Russia has de-escalated and meant it. They're still bombing Ukranian apartment blocks and will doubtless continue ceasefire or no.
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To get back to the main threads here.

I find it astounding that people will put unwavering trust in the Ukrainian government even though their country is basically run by a spectacle entertainment company whilst trot out this de-escalation rhetoric for israel-palestine, and you know I'm not on Russia's side. But the double standards are very apparent here. Why is it acceptable to back the Ukrainians in spite of their far right wing (and don't give me the idea that azov are only 10000, that's 10000 too many) but as soon as the question is Palestine, it's all about hamas are terrorists? yes and? As James Baldwin once succinctly put it: 'It is true that two wrongs don't make a right, as we love to point out to the people we have wronged. But one wrong doesn't make a right, either. People who have been wronged will attempt to right the wrong; they would not be people if they didn't. They can rarely afford to be scrupulous about the means they will use. They will use such means as come to hand. Neither, in the main, will they distinguish one oppressor from another, nor see through to the root principle of their oppression.'

I just think it's a cheap cop out to equivocate this with Ukraine, as both you and Vim are doing here. Not that I have a problem with your statement, but that the two events are just not the same. and to pretend they are is to completely misunderstand the privileged position held by the Ukraine SSR relative to the central asian republics, which were pretty much used as backwaters for brutal extraction of surplus value. But even then, the comparison is not appropriate because there was no apartheid regime in kazakhstan or turkmenistan, just a very high level of poverty to feed the ever more veracious centre, in part because of the atlanticist alliance to save Stalinism to combat the deposition of their ruling class post-war. there were two centres of any communist revolution in the 20th c: Germany and America. One failed, the other was curtailed by a ruthless campaign of curtailing the most milquetoast reformist of democrats and carving out a sphere of influence where the British were vacating as the sun finally set. Colonialism via remote control, in other words.

Part of this neo-colonialism was the pumping of martial aid money (which, incidentally, is why Turkey's military industry was so bloated and why they were able to oppress the Kurdish movement successfully, because of a paranoiac russian invasion which was never to come.)

I don't think this is at all comparable in the same way for Ukraine, its geography is not so conducive to inter-imperialist rivalries in the same way, the most favourable outcome to both the American and Russian is to drag out this conflict for years, whilst the Ukrainian government keeps begging for more aid and international support, which is what will continue to happen. make no mistake, some very big money is being made in this war.

The exception to this is Stalin's deportation of the crimean tatar population in 1944, but there is nothing to suggest that Ukraine even remotely gave a damn for them until it was profitable to utilise them after the post-soviet collapse. And Ukrainian aparachiks participated in this deportation. Those people were/are too Turkic, in fact.
 
D

droid

Well-known member
padraig (u.s.) said:
Speaking of which, Netanyahu, Gallant, and the IDF commander for southern Israel all made public statements today heavily implying that invasion is coming soon

Could just be more posturing, but if Hamas leadership isn't going to blink over the siege (and it doesn't seem like they will) and the Israelis are going to invade anyway, you'd think they need to do it soon, now that Biden's visit out of the way.
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Yeah, I had thought for a moment that somebody in senior in the US was trying to deter them, but Biden is giving a speech shortly where he will no doubt announce his continued support for whatever the fuck Israel thinks its gonna do.
 
T

thirdform

pass the sick bucket
padraig (u.s.) said:
Israeli progressiveness stops at the borders of Gaza/WB. Even if you totally ignore the conditions Israel imposes on Gaza and blame it all on Hamas, Palestinians in most of the WB don't even have basic civil rights. It's like saying South Africa was so much better than its neighbors except for the Bantustans.

And Assad, Al-Sisi, SA, Iran, etc regimes all being terrible doesn't give a Israel a free pass. Undoubtedly it's an infinitely better place for queer people. That doesn't justify flattening Gaza or settlers annexing land and shooting people in the WB. It's a classic Israel apologia line "yes we do some bad stuff but the other side is worse so why are you criticizing us". If you say you're better you're going to have to live up to a higher standard to justify that.
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ah but to riff on baldwin again, the mainstream imaginary is as follows: 'muslims are anti-queer because they are anti-white'

I know this. you know this. Biscuits knows this. let's not beat around the bush here. the LGBT community is not exempt from homonationalist and racist tendancies. We know what undergirds contemporary queer identity, even the multicultural, anti-racist versions. Of course, there are many white and a majority of afro-american queer people who are good people and hold good politics, within the circumstances they are placed in. But this does not change the white-centric and assimilationist democratic impulses of queer culture to side with American nationalism, and neither can it, within bourgeois society. Politicising ones sexuality, or the sexuality of others, inevitably leads here.

The fact that people will use their queerness as a credential to justify their oppression or the queerness of others does not fill us with empathy, it fills us with rage.

There is no need to argue with biscuits because his position is predicated on colonial retardation of the productive forces. The ability to deny something which is made central to their identities as oppressors. I do not know why you guys don't put him on ignore. This is not refuting anything he says. Let him tell his lies into the abyss. He'll soon get fed up. C'est l'esprit de l'âge, stop arguing like white men on moralistic grounds.

So-called progressiveness is an illusion, with regards to Israel, or otherwise. Either you accept the radical proposition which is truly progressive: 'all that is solid melts into air' or you use progressive as an entrenched position in relation to others, the same pathology biscuits share with liberals. In which case, they have all already lost.

This was the only truth content in Fisher's accelerationism. The only place where he went wrong is to impute this to a subject, and this was serious, and where he deviated into becoming an apologist for the present order.
 
T

thirdform

pass the sick bucket
padraig (u.s.) said:
As the official Israeli hospital explanation is basically "trust me bro it was a PIJ rocket", I think it can be safely assumed it was an Israeli strike unless there's extremely compelling counterevidence. This guy breaks it down well in incidentally a shockingly even-handed piece of reporting by mainstream American news standards:


Puts Biden in an extremely awkward spot. He has to try to salvage something out of this trip. U.S. govt hasn't yet adopted the Israeli line and if they can't even get us to pretend to believe it, who the hell will.
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now before people start attacking me, I am visually impaired so I cannot tell if this image is faked, although no doubt some people will tell me it is, without explaining how they arrived at that conclusion.

and yes, needless o say, but the caveat that the TRT has its own issues.
 
T

thirdform

pass the sick bucket
padraig (u.s.) said:
This is very important I think, and speaks to viewing Hamas's actions in terms of its own goals - to make occupation unsustainable, and to demonstrate that to its backers - vs Iran's, or any other backer's

the policy of indefinite occupation has always been an impossible one, but turning Netanyahu's strategy of using Hamas as a simultaneous manager of indefinite occupation/bulwark against a peace deal back on him as part of the maskirovka to lull the Israeli govt and security apparatus into complacency was frankly, a brilliant piece of strategic jiujitsu.

and I agree 100% that a Palestinian state is impossible without settler withdrawal, which is extremely unlikely. it would tear Israeli apart. prising 8000 settlers out of a handful of settlements in Gaza that everyone agreed were both useless and indefensible was a hugely traumatic national event. Getting a half million settlers out of the WB, and another 250k in East Jerusalem? forget it.

I just think that, as I said above, Hamas may have unwittingly overplayed its hand here and strengthened Israeli in the short run. in the long run indefinite occupation will at some point become unsustainable, but this (probably) isn't the moment.
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Given that the hamas is basically a palestinian spin off of the ikhwan, and the old ikhwani predecessor charities to hamas were (in part) funded by Israel in the 70s as a counterweight to the PLO, this shouldn't be surprising.

You know, it's very astounding that the gullable western literati loves to gob off about communitywork and charities, except, this was of course what Mujama al-Islamiya exactly was. The idea of non-militant politics is a contradiction in terms. All you do by propounding this line is to set yourself up for co-optation. Just as there is no ethical capitalism, there are no apolitical and party-neutral good works, much less so when they are conducted under the banner of religion.
 
Mr. Tea

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
T

thirdform

pass the sick bucket
vimothy

vimothy

yurp
I don't see the equivocation. What I see is the obvious subtext to statements about how the US can "certainly afford" to fight two (proxy) wars at once, and the very real possibility that it will soon be doing just that.
 
shakahislop

shakahislop

Well-known member
this is what i was saying about saturation, this conflict being in everything here. basement is a techno club and there's a reference to (i'm assuming) this conflict in the description.

1697803609268.png
 
maxi

maxi

Well-known member
shakahislop said:
this is what i was saying about saturation, this conflict being in everything here. basement is a techno club and there's a reference to (i'm assuming) this conflict in the description.

View attachment 16444
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this is just the way to sell things now in art world circles. quite gross really. "in this heartbreaking time, there's no one else you'd want to be behind the booth" .... what do they have to do with anything, they're DJ's playing house/techno in new york. acting like this DJ is "uplifting" palestinians or whoever else by doing so. opportunistically associating themselves with a struggle on the other side of the world to appear fashionable and sell tickets without having to make any kind of sacrifice or do any work whatsoever.

I get that it may just be the promoter and not the DJ's fault, and also that it basically comes down to how they've worded some promotional copy. but seeing this type of shit all the time is getting really annoying now. it's the self-congratulatory tone that really grates.
 
Mr. Tea

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
maxi said:
this is just the way to sell things now in art world circles. quite gross really. "in this heartbreaking time, there's no one else you'd want to be behind the booth" .... what do they have to do with anything, they're DJ's playing house/techno in new york. acting like this DJ is "uplifting" palestinians or whoever else by doing so. opportunistically associating themselves with a struggle on the other side of the world to appear fashionable and sell tickets without having to make any kind of sacrifice or do any work whatsoever.

I get that it may just be the promoter and not the DJ's fault, and also that it basically comes down to how they've worded some promotional copy. but seeing this type of shit all the time is getting really annoying now. it's the self-congratulatory tone that really grates.
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Is there a 'DJihad' yet?

(And no, @zhao doesn't count.)
 
maxi

maxi

Well-known member
not to detract from the thread too much, but in the club music world I feel like a lot of that kind of thing is brought in when there's nothing interesting or new happening musically. you don't wanna seem like just another house DJ among millions. so you attach the weight of a current and important social movement to yourself to attract attention and press coverage. hence the career of someone like india jordan, totally bland and forgettable music cast as interesting and even radical.
 
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