Deeper Roots

[Mr. Tea]

Yeah, I saw that last night. The thing that stuck with me the most was the sense of what an amazing place Baghdad must been a thousand years ago, and even as recently as the 1960s. Very sad.

 

[polystyle]

found some fascinating stuff regarding ancient connections. after collecting the following excerpts i realized that they are from but 1 section of a work called "Polynesian Pathways By Peter Marsh". this chapter is "Ancient Americas", among other chapters with titles like "Ancient Asia". among other things it examine the criss crossing inter-connectedness of ancient cultures by following linquistic, genetic, and artistic strands, offering a vision of shared ancestry entirely mind boggling in its complexity.

so keep that in mind, and at the link at the end use aarows at bottom of page to navigate:







article places Atlantis somewhere in the middle of the Atlantic ocean, and as some kind of meeting point of ancient american and celtic cultures:


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excuse the hurried cut and paste editing job. tried to sum up key points. but time is running out, and there is still a part of this that i have not read, including things like this:





the above are all from this chapter:

http://www.users.on.net/~mkfenn/page9.htm

here are all the chapters of the paper:

http://www.users.on.net/~mkfenn/index.html

Just rereading this post and links Zhao
Interesting turn of things - they came from N America - not from Europe to N America.

Atlantis Atlantis where were you ?
Seems to be too many old stories , accounts for it not to have existed ...

Isnt' there also a 'Galician' connection - people from Ukraine / Carpathians who went South to live in Spain ?

PBS just ran the new series on India with first program on origins.
People who became known as Aryans went East from around old Persia
and who they had to move because their land dried out and made their way through the Fertile crescent into India

I am still curious about the Sogdians also from Iran region who traded and lived along old trade route between Asia and Europe in Khotan in W China early on

Shamballa / Shangrila / Shaoshyans from Zoraster another whole story

Always curious as to how much has been forgotten,
didn't make to any form of text , got erased
- overwritten

 

[zhao]

found many amazing threads on the Assata Shakur forum containing a HUGE wealth of information, in the form of e-books, audio books, and videos, on topics such as those addressed here.

the 3 volumes of Black Athena can be found and downloaded on this page

and Afro-centricity Debate - Dr. Clarke & Professor Martin Bernal debate professor Mary Leftkowitz and Professor Guy Rogers. Mid 90's, Topic of discussion and debate is the book 'Black Athena' written by Professor Bernal. Split into 5 parts: Part 1 part 2 Part 3 Part 4 Part 5

many others on this page, such as:

- Donlald A. Mackenzie - Ancient Man in Britain
- E.O. James - The Ancient Gods
- Acharya S. - The Christ Conspiracy - The Greatest Story Ever Sold
- Another Jesus
- Christianity's Greatest Controversy
- Herman L. Hoeh - Compedium of World History vol.1 & 2
- Forbidden History of Europe
- Prof. Hilton Hotema - Mystery Man of The Bible
- The True History of Christianity
- Micheal Cremo - Hidden History of the Human Race
- The first 2500 Years of Human History (contains some lies but still interesting)

Also fascinating videos and interviews with scholars on topics such as the Dogon Cosmology. for instance the following for download on this page:

Magical Egypt - 8 Episodes Plus Extras

Episode 1: The Invisible Science
A growing body of evidence us suggesting a missing chapter in human history. Symbolist author and Egyptologist John Anthony West explores evidence of a sophisticated science behind the unexplainable accomplishments of Ancient Egypt. Was Ancient Egypt the inheritor of a body of scientific and spiritual knowledge from an even earlier civilization? Author / Mathematician Michael S Schneider discusses organic geometry and the role of the Fibonacci number series in growing life. West then demonstrates the presence of the Fibonacci series in the stages of construction of the temple of Karnak, also known as the "House of Life".

 

[polystyle]

Click languages in Africa ...
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/01/science/01eden.html?scp=4&sq=&st=nyt

 

[Mr. Tea]

Click languages in Africa ...
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/01/science/01eden.html?scp=4&sq=&st=nyt

Thanks for that PD, I love all this kind of stuff. Damn, I'd have made a much better anthropologist than physicist.

Anyway this stuff reminds of some things I read recently about work by Stephen Oppenheimer based mainly on genetic analysis, though he also uses language, which suggests that everyone in the world outside Africa is descended from a group of perhaps just a few hundred individuals who left East Africa at some point in the distant past and went on to colonise the whole of the rest of the planet - thus explaining the relative paucity of genetic variation outside the continent.

He also reckons today's Brits are descended mainly from neolithic people from Iberia, and that the idea that we're (they're) all derived from Celts, Vikings etc. is largely untrue. Fascinating stuff (to me).

 

[zhao]

thanks polystyle!

I'd have made a much better anthropologist than physicist.

i also sometimes think what if i had gone into this field instead of art...
but we can get into it anytime we like... not on professional level at first...

He also reckons today's Brits are descended mainly from neolithic people from Iberia, and that the idea that we're (they're) all derived from Celts, Vikings etc. is largely untrue.

this in keeping with the overturning, by Bernal and others, of the 19th century revisions of early history.

 

[polystyle]

Probably more turning of soil to go ... digging deeper ...
Who has been overwritten ?

 

[zhao]

Who has been overwritten ?

not sure exactly what you are asking about but if it is the 19th Century revisions of ancient history, which saw the Ancient Model suppressed by the Aryan Model, the one man mostly responsible was Karl Otfried Muller, a historian "adamantly opposed to recognizing any specific borrowings from the East".

are you reading these books? is anyone besides me?

and just found a review of a book by one of his loudest detractors by Bernal:

http://bmcr.brynmawr.edu/1996/96.04.05.html

 

[polystyle]

I simply point to everything that has been overwritten , over time;
civilizations, languages and techniques learned so long ago as to appear alien to us 21st century goers.
There just seems to be a rather large gap between what's really 'known' and what's been lost.
Obviously some things are still a 'mystery',
but it seems almost all stories have at least some little grain of basis to being with .
Anyway, human animals -with all our flaws and cycles of often self created problems ,
still like to travel long distances to see the oldest , most ancient ruins - those deeper roots.

 

[polystyle]

early venus

They are finding older art...
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/14/science/14venus.html?ref=global-home

 

[luka]

its never been disputed that the iberians were in britain and are part of our genetic inheritance. its textbook stuff.

 

[Mr. Tea]

Recent textbooks, maybe. The more traditional view has been that of succeeding waves of invaders killing off or displacing previous inhabitants, hasn't it? And I think Oppenheimer is the first person to show that Britain's DNA isn't just "in part" Iberian but mostly-to-almost-entirely (as you go from East Anglia to Cornwall/Wales/W. coast of Ireland) Iberian.

 

[luka]

i first read it in trevelyan, not terribly recent in other words.

 

[zhao]

its never been disputed that the iberians were in britain and are part of our genetic inheritance. its textbook stuff.

to someone who has looked deeper in to these things, such as yourself, maybe.

i come from generations of higher learning. and it is my parent's belief, and also mine until i encountered Black Athena and others recrently, that Classic Greek culture was inherently European, and of European origins.

and this is clearly still the belief held by most. just look at the majority of historians in the world attacking Black Athena since it came out. just look at the comments for the book on Amazon.

just yesterday at the Russian shop next door, where i was purchasing some frozen dumplings:

me: yeah i know how to cook them as they are almost exactly the same as dumplings in China.
shop woman: oh? it all comes from Italy like Pasta.
me: um.... no...

 

[zhao]

They are finding older art...
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/14/science/14venus.html?ref=global-home

everything just keep getting pushed further and further back, and we keep discovering that our past is ever older than we previously thought.

remember this thread? i don't know what is going on with that site... but probably will just have to wait for the official paper to come out and read about it in the NY Times just like everyone else.

we have been thinking all along that Sumer was the first civilization, but this is beginning to be clearly false as excavations have been going on in recent years, and is still continuing, in present day Turkey, Iraq, etc., which is uncovering a previous civilization which pushes everything back another 5000 years at least.

giant stone pillars up to 20 meters tall which were used as part of temples to which people came from hundreds of kilometers to worship are being unearthed, and the date of their construction is said to be somewhere around 10,000 BC. (5000 years before the Sumerians in Mesopotamia).

this was related to me by a friend keen on such matters over some bad sushi saturday night, and has been on my mind ever since. i've been doing a bit of googling but i think none to very little information is available at this point as the excavations are still under way.

in archaeology circles it is certainly the norm for dates to be pushed back and back time and again as new discoveries surface, and people have been conjecturing about this for sometime, but I was still very much surprised to hear of it -- even though it does make sense somehow.

 

[Mr. Tea]

just yesterday at the Russian shop next door, where i was purchasing some frozen dumplings:

me: yeah i know how to cook them as they are almost exactly the same as dumplings in China.
shop woman: oh? it all comes from Italy like Pasta.
me: um.... no...

Ooh, I bet that pissed you right off. I imagine I'd be the same if I heard someone calling Marmite a "British version of Vegemite" or something similarly outrageous.

 

[zhao]

well not as much pissed me off as just another glaring example of the brainwashedness of world populations by revisionist history reflecting Eurocentric ideology since the 1800s...

 

[Lichen]

I was taught from an early age that Marco Polo took the idea of noodles back to Italy from China; thus pasta.

My brain obviously escaped washing.

 

[zhao]

My brain obviously escaped washing.

and we all appreciate your dirty durtee nasty filthy mind Lichen

what about classical greek civilization? from your education do you have a picture of it largely deriving from older African and Semitic civilizations, or mostly white european?

 

[Lichen]

Interesting...the impression I have of Greek civilisation (maybe from my education, maybe from my lack of it) is that is that it represents the beginning of European civilisation, rather than a staging post between older African or Semitic civilisations and modern European civilisation.

The "Alpha", if you like.