It was a cap in hand moment and Putin left basically in hock to China. They're going to benefit from cheap oil and Russia got fuck all apart from nominal support.
Russia Surrounded
- Thread starter Woebot
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- craner boobs disco dasha nekrasova good old obsessive antiamericanism gullfire over leningrad j. h. prynne jamaican voodoo gang from predator 2 my indian mate in year 11 with downs syndrome oliver ukrainer sanctuary of apollo shaka's secret mission snake island the black sea the good old party spirit of desert storm the russo-ucranerian war wagner man falling out of the sky we're all neocons now whatabouastic whataboutery whataboutish whataboutism whataboutistic who controls the serpent
wild greens
Well-known member
For the last nine months all western media has tried to tell us that Russia will lose badly and are losing badly but they're still there. Ukraine have lost a lot of lads as well. I dunno
Disliking fascist states invading neighbours countries and committing genocide doesn't make you a neocon.
Russia have huge manpower reserves. I don't know how Ukraine's stand up against that tbh. But the spring offensive is what to watch for. i mean, could go disastrously wrong I guess? But Russia seem to have literally no discipline as a fighting force. I hate to go so armchair general, I'm no expert. But we'll see.
It's about 3:1, the manpower ratio, but they're losing fighting vehicles faster than anyone expected, so the army they're fielding is more like that of WW1 than WW2. Disaster for Russia.
vimothy
yurp
no but who's playing?
vimothy
yurp
their economy collapses under sanctions and they can't afford to prosecute the war. which hasnt happened.
WashYourHands
Cat Malogen
Who knows accurate loss numbers or trusts current sources
Russia will invest more of its own blood, Ukrainian demands for peace will include complete territorial sovereignty, so it can only grind on until winter and beyond. Perhaps when the loss tallies fully register around Russia and Putin eventually drops, a peace offer porthole might open
Putin‘s succession? Don’t get the hype around that show but who the f£ck follows Uncle Vlad? he’s facing has a huge legacy “out” quagmire and like any legacy, the jockeying for position is incalculably ruthless
Stark, for everyone, add forthcoming US gen election too
Russia will invest more of its own blood, Ukrainian demands for peace will include complete territorial sovereignty, so it can only grind on until winter and beyond. Perhaps when the loss tallies fully register around Russia and Putin eventually drops, a peace offer porthole might open
Putin‘s succession? Don’t get the hype around that show but who the f£ck follows Uncle Vlad? he’s facing has a huge legacy “out” quagmire and like any legacy, the jockeying for position is incalculably ruthless
Stark, for everyone, add forthcoming US gen election too
Croww is on the bill so that will be good. I've not heard of any of the others apart from florentino who is sort of a Latin, but good. And then the rest is some "pan" label showcase and bill kouligas is part of thst but tbh I'm unfamiliar with pan.
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
It hasn't "collapsed" yet, in the sense of people suffering mass food shortages or whatever a "collapsing" economy looks like, but everything I've read suggests it's not exactly in rude health. I mean, if this can be corroborated:
then I'd call it pretty serious.
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
But you're just changing the subject, anyway, which wasn't "Has the West succeeded in destroying Russia's economy yet?", but "Has Russia's 'special military operation' succeeded in overthrowing the Ukrainian government yet?" If the answer to the first question is 'no', then the answer to the second can only be 'hell no'.
The Nord Stream stuff seems like it's going to fizzle out, if it hasn't already. The Washington Post just published something poking holes in the latest official story, but they aren't making much of an effort to promote it.
This line is telling.
At gatherings of European and NATO policymakers, officials have settled into a rhythm, said one senior European diplomat: “Don’t talk about Nord Stream.” Leaders see little benefit from digging too deeply and finding an uncomfortable answer, the diplomat said, echoing sentiments of several peers in other countries who said they would rather not have to deal with the possibility that Ukraine or allies were involved.
This line is telling.
At gatherings of European and NATO policymakers, officials have settled into a rhythm, said one senior European diplomat: “Don’t talk about Nord Stream.” Leaders see little benefit from digging too deeply and finding an uncomfortable answer, the diplomat said, echoing sentiments of several peers in other countries who said they would rather not have to deal with the possibility that Ukraine or allies were involved.
Do you guys have any sense who did it or might have done it? I haven't followed the story at all.
droid
Well-known member
It seemed obvious at the time that the Americans were the most likely perpetrators. Everything that has happened since seems to confirm those suspicions, most notably the conspicuous lack of attention and investigation of what is probably the most serious act of war against the EU since its founding.
Hersh's article outlined a plausible but far from watertight case. This was followed by the leaking of 'intelligence' that it was a non-state Ukrainian aligned group that hired boats that would be incapable of carrying enough explosives for the job. As version points out, that has dissolved like so much methane in the Baltic sea.
So, Occam's razor. The US had the means, motive and opportunity. They said they were going to do it, they celebrated publicly afterwards and now nobody wants to investigate it.
Lesson for Europeans? The US can and will attack your critical infrastructure without fear of consequence, and there's nothing you can do about it.
Hersh's article outlined a plausible but far from watertight case. This was followed by the leaking of 'intelligence' that it was a non-state Ukrainian aligned group that hired boats that would be incapable of carrying enough explosives for the job. As version points out, that has dissolved like so much methane in the Baltic sea.
So, Occam's razor. The US had the means, motive and opportunity. They said they were going to do it, they celebrated publicly afterwards and now nobody wants to investigate it.
Lesson for Europeans? The US can and will attack your critical infrastructure without fear of consequence, and there's nothing you can do about it.