Russia Surrounded

[droid]

It's just so hilariously obvious, especially if you know anything about the long history of these kinds of operations in general and about US clandestine attacks specifically. I guarantee that anyone senior involved in Western military intelligence knows precisely what happened - the impunity is part of the threat after all.

 

[version]

Hersh's article outlined a plausible but far from watertight case.

He's published a few more since then too, although I've only read the latest one on the 'ghost ship'.

 

[DannyL]

It seemed obvious at the time that the Americans were the most likely perpetrators. Everything that has happened since seems to confirm those suspicions, most notably the conspicuous lack of attention and investigation of what is probably the most serious act of war against the EU since its founding.

Hersh's article outlined a plausible but far from watertight case. This was followed by the leaking of 'intelligence' that it was a non-state Ukrainian aligned group that hired boats that would be incapable of carrying enough explosives for the job. As version points out, that has dissolved like so much methane in the Baltic sea.

So, Occam's razor. The US had the means, motive and opportunity. They said they were going to do it, they celebrated publicly afterwards and now nobody wants to investigate it.

Lesson for Europeans? The US can and will attack your critical infrastructure without fear of consequence, and there's nothing you can do about it.

In general, I'm suspicious of Hersh as a source. His reporting on Syria is absolutely shit, he *could* be right here though, I guess.
Thread on Hersh was literally just reading:

 

[version]

A bunch of people assumed it was the US before Hersh popped up.

 

[HMGovt’s Glorious Return!]

My first thought? Bond. James Bond.

 

[WashYourHands]

My first thought? Bond. James Bond.

 

[DannyL]

A bunch of people assumed it was the US before Hersh popped up.

Yeah, I don't have any disagreement with what Droid wrote above.
The curse of the old white men blights journalism in a number of different ways - Hersh and Pilger are two obvious examples in the "anti-imperialist" camp. Simon Jenkins in The Guardian is another one. Consistently wrong over a wide range of topics.

 

[DannyL]

I can't help but see it as pretty fucking racist when they turn to ME politics. They talk over local journalists and have this unearned privilege that buys them a pass time and time again.

 

[version]

I've encountered a few people who slot everything into this overarching assumption that imperialism, evil, etc. is the sole preserve of America. Unsurprisingly, they're often Americans themselves.

 

[Mr. Tea]

I've encountered a few people who slot everything into this overarching assumption that imperialism, evil, etc. is the sole preserve of America. Unsurprisingly, they're often Americans themselves.

This whole phenomenon is deeply Oedipal, don't you think? The sins of the father, and all that.

 

[version]

It's just so hilariously obvious,

NYT are on it now too.

"Intelligence leaks surrounding who blew up most of the Russian-backed Nord Stream pipelines last September have provided more questions than answers. It may be in no one’s interest to reveal more."

😂

 

[vimothy]

And "collapse" is a sufficiently elastic term that I feel Vimothy could wriggle around in it enough to come out with his "war is bad,m'kay" message whatever the circs.

I dont think collapse is an elastic term, it seems pretty straightforward to me. has the russian economy collapsed? has Putin's regime collapsed? the net effect if anything has probably been to strengthen it

 

[vimothy]

also, "war is bad, m'kay"? isnt war bad, objectively?

 

[vimothy]

If you look at the constituent parts of this it is shifting a lot from the original concept- the belt & road scheme fell apart and China has had to write off billions to failing or bankrupt developers, plans scaled back

that's pretty interesting actually - if you look at how the dollar system has grown its precisely through crises which reinforced and retrenched dependencies on it, which is not so diff to whats happening today with the belt and road initiative

 

[Mr. Tea]

also, "war is bad, m'kay"? isnt war bad, objectively?

Then the economic collapse of a country that's currently prosecuting a particularly brutal war - or at least, the degadation of it to the point where it can't prosecute that war any more - would objectively be a good thing, right?

 

[vimothy]

for sure

 

[vimothy]

that isnt happening, however, and ofc there are other factors - nukes - so maybe we need a different approach

 

[Mr. Tea]

that isnt happening, however, and ofc there are other factors - nukes - so maybe we need a different approach

Is anyone still actually scared by that talk? I think if he was gonna do it, he's have done it by now. And I remain convinced that anyone who says "I'm not bluffing" is definitely bluffing.

 

[HMGovt’s Glorious Return!]

I heard from a military analyst, someone who was a US liaison at NATO HQ, that Putin knows he is dead if he does that. They know precisely where he is at all times and would send multiple warheads to his location, wherever that might be, to ensure the job is done.

 

[Mr. Tea]

I heard from a military analyst, someone who was a US liaison at NATO HQ, that Putin knows he is dead if he does that. They know precisely where he is at all times and would send multiple warheads to his location, wherever that might be, to ensure the job is done.

I mean, yeah, I think it's likely he's delusional but he isn't suicidal.