malelesbian
Femboyism IS feminism.
Yes, gender is intersubjective. Other people must recognize and accept me as a member of my gender in order for me to pass as a member of said gender. This I already knew, thank you. Where were you going with this?
The Feminine Perspective against the Manosphere
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Nice try, but I'm not a kafir so you can't play hard2get with me.
Would you say that John Duns Scotus was a male lesbian? This is probably the most important question I have asked you, so think very carefully before responding.
malelesbian
Femboyism IS feminism.
I have no idea, I don't know anything about medieval philosophy.
subvert47
I don't fight, I run away
ghost
Well-known member
if gender (and femininity, and masculinity) are intersubjective, then the practice of coming up with a definition doesn't even make sense. the claim that "we know and agree what masculinity and femininity is" is directly contrary to the very obvious statement that such things are intersubjective. the idea of an "incomplete, indeterminate definition" is still notably lacking intersubjectivity, it's still something that you can wield like a truncheon. even if I'll on occasion refer to a femininity or a masculinity, that's very much not the same as trying to define, which is inherently about universalizing.
malelesbian
Femboyism IS feminism.
You're going to have to explain your reasoning here. I know a lot about intersubjectivity, and there's nothing in the literature about how if something is intersubjective you can't define it. If something is intersubjective, that means multiple minds can access it. And of course multiple minds can access a definition. And I have no clue what it means to say a particular definition lacks intersubjectivity. If we can all understand the definition, it's intersubjective.
Intersubjectivity presupposes a common, universally accessible world. Agreement is intersubjective, so I don't see how the claim that we know and agree about gender contradicts gender's intersubjectivity. There may be intersubjective disagreement about gender, but then you'd have to provide an alternative definition. If it's a mistake to define gender altogether, then all the better for Butler and I. Remember it was Padraig who claimed my view was defective because it couldn't give a determinate definition of masculinity and femininity. If we don't need to define these terms then there's no criticism against me, other than your unargued claim that feminine culture does not serve as a real alternative to the patriarchy.
Finally, I have no clue what it means to say that an incomplete indeterminate definition of gender lacks intersubjectivity. When I claim "Communal acceptance determines the behaviors that define a particular gender" that is an indeterminate definition that literally states that gender is intersubjective. That's what the "communal acceptance" part means.
Once again you are trying to critique me using Butler's own claims. Please be more charitable in the future. Judith Butler's arguments are so strong that efforts to criticize her just reiterate her own claims ahahahaha.
malelesbian
Femboyism IS feminism.
Yo I'm tripping out, I just found a video of this Greek guy saying basically the same thing I am about male lesbianism.
Release your inner girl! Embrace non-phallic sexuality! And always, always eat pussy without asking.
Edit: Here's another awesome Steely Dan tune! Dig those harmonies!
Haters mad cuz the literal dictionary definition of 'sissy' is "an effeminate man".
www.merriam-webster.com
Release your inner girl! Embrace non-phallic sexuality! And always, always eat pussy without asking.
Edit: Here's another awesome Steely Dan tune! Dig those harmonies!
Haters mad cuz the literal dictionary definition of 'sissy' is "an effeminate man".
Definition of SISSY
an effeminate man or boy; also : a timid, weak, or cowardly person… See the full definition
www.merriam-webster.com
WashYourHands
Cat Malogen
Because I’ve been up for a loooong time
malelesbian
Femboyism IS feminism.
And I don't even LIKE Joe Budden, son. But listen to what Sean P says. He KILLED Joe!
WashYourHands
Cat Malogen
prefer this era of Hot 97
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
Flourished briefly in the second half of the 90s and then went extinct early in the following decade. There was an exhibition about them in the Natural History Museum a couple of years ago.
malelesbian
Femboyism IS feminism.
The site's not allowing me to delete or edit my earlier post, so I'm correcting the typos in it here.
The main problem is, no one can give any examples of (6), of gender-neutral behavior that subverts the patriarchy.
Some have claimed that femininity is just as oppressive as masculinity. These people have effectively claimed that (8) is false, that representing femininity lacks the potential to liberate us.
I don't think anyone will deny premise (4), the existence of the gender-binary. And if Butler is right, there's a whole range of non-binary identities, the most simple of which are the sissy, the feminine man, and the tomboy, the masculine woman.
- Behavior defines gender (Gender Performativity)
- Society enables gender's unstable, historical, ever-changing, fluid, unstable existence as a spectrum (Anti-Essentialism)
- Some behavior is feminine and some is masculine (Gendered Behavior)
- The patriarchy, the dominant mainstream culture, regulates biological men to act masculine and biological women to act feminine, and anyone who acts otherwise subverts the gender binary (Gender Binary)
- Society codes masculinity as the self Same individual Subject and femininity as the Other person (the Beauvoir and Irigaray non-reductive, non-stereotypical indeterminate definition of the two genders)
- Some behavior is not gendered.(Gender-neutral Potential)
- Masculine culture de-values and represses feminine culture (Patriarchal Subordination)
- If men represent femininity, then they counteract (7). (Feminine Representation)
- The male lesbian represents femininity by means of his behavioral presentations. (Male Lesbian)
- Therefore, men can subvert the patriarchy by acting feminine.
The main problem is, no one can give any examples of (6), of gender-neutral behavior that subverts the patriarchy.
Some have claimed that femininity is just as oppressive as masculinity. These people have effectively claimed that (8) is false, that representing femininity lacks the potential to liberate us.
I don't think anyone will deny premise (4), the existence of the gender-binary. And if Butler is right, there's a whole range of non-binary identities, the most simple of which are the sissy, the feminine man, and the tomboy, the masculine woman.
WashYourHands
Cat Malogen
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luka
Well-known member
@wild greens police used to love this place but now they go to the other kebabish opposite the traitors