Since it's been a while since we had an Israel/Palestine thread...

[Murphy]

“think of the childrens” (verbatim - especially if questions around gender arise)

- “Palestinian childrens?”

”Lord have mercy, nooooo…the majority of scandalous things either remain uncorroborated or were revealed to be made up”

etc etc

 

[mixed_biscuits]

30,000+ civilian dead aka women and children isnt evidence enough? The entirety of Gaza, already a wasteland, levelled?

Schools, hospitals, homes?

Your move from rw reactionary to bloated guff-dealer is already complete, dunno who you’re typing this bollocks out for

Yes, there's a war on, but that figure is from Hamas, and is likely to be inflated because they hate Israel and want to make them look as bad as possible. Remember that grossly misrepresented 'hospital attack' of the start of the Israeli offensive?

The UN says it is now relying on figures from the Hamas-run health ministry in Gaza, rather than from the Hamas-run Government Media Office (GMO).

Gaza war: Why is the UN citing lower death toll for women and children?

The UN says it is now relying on figures from the Hamas-run health ministry in Gaza.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[mixed_biscuits]

During a conflict each side emits claims that optimise for winning the conflict, rather than for winning the Objective Reporting of the Year Award. You all learnt about this when you looked at German and English propaganda during World War II at school; you should all have your History certificates deleted from the record.

 

[Murphy]

both sides mislead but one misleads far more than the other

you can’t gloss over IDF personnel bodycam footage, the rate and volume of footage glorifying in bloodlust, on and on, it’s everywhere even TikfuckinTok

not a hill worth dying on, Biscetti, ie this is not Golgotha and you’re not an emissary of Christ

 

[Murphy]

be a rw reactionary by all means but you can only self-occlude for so long

penance - ten Our Fathers, twenty three Hail Mary’s and for every cycle ruminate on the following

”o Mary conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee”

 

[mixed_biscuits]

both sides mislead but one misleads far more than the other

you can’t gloss over IDF personnel bodycam footage, the rate and volume of footage glorifying in bloodlust, on and on, it’s everywhere even TikfuckinTok

not a hill worth dying on, Biscetti, ie this is not Golgotha and you’re not an emissary of Christ

How real, do you think, were the events of 7/10?

 

[mixed_biscuits]

be a rw reactionary by all means but you can only self-occlude for so long

penance - ten Our Fathers, twenty three Hail Mary’s and for every cycle ruminate on the following

”o Mary conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee”

Hamas are far right, obviously.

 

[Murphy]

Oooooh, a double quote

 

[Murphy]

Hamas are far right, obviously.

in a sick grotesque way, it was a move of genius

definitely the Walter Kurtz version of genius but then neither of us have lived in a refugee ‘camp’ for 70+ years and only one of us has known war

cascade has isolated Israel in perpetuity, a 2 state outcome has been shown to be the farce Israel always wanted it to be, nations arming Israel will continue to flounder under international scrutiny re funding (S Africa and ICJ), Netanyahu could yet end up in an international criminal court and Iran is regionally stronger too as a consequence

 

[version]

War doesn't tend to make people nice but this is hardly independent evidence from people who have said they hate Jews and Israel and everything in that lexical field. What is required is a few whistleblowers or CCTV footage or suchlike.

There have been whistleblowers. That's where some of the information came from. It's mentioned in the article -

" ... based on interviews with former detainees and with Israeli military officers, doctors and soldiers who served at the site... "

It's the same base reported here -

Strapped down, blindfolded, held in diapers: Israeli whistleblowers detail abuse of Palestinians in shadowy detention center

CNN spoke to three Israeli whistleblowers who worked at the Sde Teiman desert camp, which holds Palestinians detained during Israel’s invasion of Gaza. All spoke out at risk of legal repercussions and reprisals from groups supportive of Israel’s hardline policies in Gaza.

They paint a picture of a facility where doctors sometimes amputated prisoners’ limbs due to injuries sustained from constant handcuffing; of medical procedures sometimes performed by underqualified medics earning it a reputation for being “a paradise for interns”; and where the air is filled with the smell of neglected wounds left to rot.

According to the accounts, the facility some 18 miles from the Gaza frontier is split into two parts: enclosures where around 70 Palestinian detainees from Gaza are placed under extreme physical restraint, and a field hospital where wounded detainees are strapped to their beds, wearing diapers and fed through straws.

“They stripped them down of anything that resembles human beings,” said one whistleblower, who worked as a medic at the facility’s field hospital.

“(The beatings) were not done to gather intelligence. They were done out of revenge,” said another whistleblower. “It was punishment for what they (the Palestinians) did on October 7 and punishment for behavior in the camp.”

 

[Murphy]

You could maybe tattoo it on his eyeballs

 

[mixed_biscuits]

You could maybe tattoo it on his eyeballs

It looks like I'll have to tattoo 'how real do you think the events of 7/10 were?' on your eyeballs, before we get an answer. Hamas even livestreamed it FFS - which must have lent inspiration to any IDF ad hoc mediatisation efforts.

 

[mixed_biscuits]

in a sick grotesque way, it was a move of genius

definitely the Walter Kurtz version of genius but then neither of us have lived in a refugee ‘camp’ for 70+ years and only one of us has known war

cascade has isolated Israel in perpetuity, a 2 state outcome has been shown to be the farce Israel always wanted it to be, nations arming Israel will continue to flounder under international scrutiny re funding (S Africa and ICJ), Netanyahu could yet end up in an international criminal court and Iran is regionally stronger too as a consequence

So what you're saying is that the Middle East will gang up on Israel eventually and then the US will use that as an excuse to seize control of the Middle East. That's based af.

 

[version]

I was surprised to see The Times publishing this re: October 7th -

Israel says Hamas weaponised rape. Does the evidence add up?

The Israeli government insists that Hamas formally sanctioned sexual assault on October 7, 2023. But investigators say the evidence does not stand up to scrutiny. Catherine Philp and Gabrielle Weiniger report on eight months of claim and counter-claim.

https://archive.ph/j9XSE

 

[mixed_biscuits]

I was surprised to see The Times publishing this re: October 7th

The Hamas fans are right - they would massacre innocent young people in their hundreds but they're always going to be gentlemen about it.

 

[Murphy]

So what you're saying is that the Middle East will gang up on Israel eventually and then the US will use that as an excuse to seize control of the Middle East. That's based af.

No

Look at prior pre-October Saudi/Israeli chatter

You miss the clear BRICS allusion adage too

I’m gonna start calling you Nigel for CPFC quality posting, “but an Eagle soars on Imperialist wings” facepalm

 

[mixed_biscuits]

This urban warfare expert is clearing up some misconceptions:

 

[mixed_biscuits]

'nobody will acknowledge that the Gaza Health Ministry provides a number to the world that according to them includes every death that happens in Gaza no matter the cause, doesn't matter if it was the Hamas rocket that landed on a house since 20% of the 13,000 Rockets Hamas has fired have landed in Gaza.'

 

[mixed_biscuits]

'the strategy to win wars is to do it rapidly'
'right so and is that also because opposition to the war mounts as it...?'
'yeah as it's politics'
'yeah absolutely absolutely so the more dragged out it is the more costly it is on the public relations side'
'that's right'
'cos the losers start to look like victims'
'right'

So, PR considerations - not just for Israel but for its allies, in fact primarily for the US - prevented Israel from going all-out at the start in a bid to get it all over and done with. The conflict in hand will only end when either Hamas or Israel lose: any ceasefire will enable Hamas to rebuild their chain of command and the conflict will last longer overall with a higher death toll. The expert says Israel need support from their own public but should support dissipate this would only be temporary because Hamas will continue to pursue their objective, the threat will become obvious to the public again, and Israel will fire up the war machine again.

 

[version]

'nobody will acknowledge that the Gaza Health Ministry provides a number to the world that according to them includes every death that happens in Gaza no matter the cause, doesn't matter if it was the Hamas rocket that landed on a house since 20% of the 13,000 Rockets Hamas has fired have landed in Gaza.'

The Israeli official told VICE News that in the current military operation, which has destroyed most of Gaza’s infrastructure and displaced about two-thirds of its population, the rules of engagement for IDF’s artillery and airborne assets have been loosened, leading to thousands more strikes than typically conducted in past Gaza operations.

“The secret services looked at the health ministry’s collection methods and determined the numbers were generally credible, so instead of collecting their own information they decided to use the [Hamas] numbers.”

[...]

Two intelligence officials from NATO countries told VICE News that privately the civilian casualty numbers released by the ministry in Gaza were accurate enough to be widely used in intelligence briefings throughout NATO.

Israeli Intelligence Has Deemed Hamas-Run Health Ministry's Death Toll Figures Generally Accurate

Senior Israel officials are using the Gaza Health Ministry's death numbers internally, months after both Israel and the U.S. claimed those figures should not be trusted.

www.vice.com