Since it's been a while since we had an Israel/Palestine thread...

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droid

Guest
On Monday night I found a link to a video on twitter - it was an IDF video called 'Activists shoot at troops' or something similar. It was about 30 seconds of grainy blackness purportedly taken from a helmet cam with 2 guys shouting in hebrew and sounds of what could be gunshots. The voices say 'they have real weapons', 'Live fire', 'real weapons', 'yes they have real weapons' etc...

I looked for this on Tuesday morning and there wasn't a trace of it to be found - did anyone else see it?

Does this mean the IDF aren't even convinced by their own propaganda and decided to take it down?
 
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droid

Guest
Yeah, I saw that. The 'explanation' is that the date/time on the cameras were never set. Still, even if that's true, its still a bit of a fuck up from the normally thorough hasbaraniks.
 
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scottdisco

rip this joint please
vimothy said:
One of the points Heller (Opinio Juris post) makes is that this operation may constitute formal recognition of full belligerent status for Hamas with the implication that their fighters become priviledged combatants with POW status when captured.
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that's a really interesting point Vim. nice one.

big up everyone the last few pages, fascinating and thought-provoking posts from all.
 
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polystyle

Well-known member
droid said:
Yeah, I saw that. The 'explanation' is that the date/time on the cameras were never set. Still, even if that's true, its still a bit of a fuck up from the normally thorough hasbaraniks.
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Wow. That's the explanation ? never set the time and date ?
Oh someone's *ucking God.
 
padraig (u.s.)

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
both of the other op-eds concerning the flotilla attack in today's NYT are just appalling:

from the Israeli ambassador to the U.S. Michael Oren

from Daniel Gordis, the VP of an Israeli think tank

both men are actually American-born - from NYC - Jews who emigrated to Israel as adults, and both are intellectuals produced by the cream of American academia (i.e. Ivy League). I find all this to be interesting in that they are the perfect candidates to write apologias for Israel to the NYT readership. if you go to Gordis' website you can see praise for his books from Oren, as well as Natas Sharansky & Alan Dershowitz.

anyway, the standard line for hardline American supporters of Israel - which I've also seen espoused by the usual suspects, such as Abraham Foxman (head of the ADL) - seems to go like this: the people on the flotilla were either active supporters of Hamas & of terrorism, or at best dupes; the Israelis commandos were attacked w/o provocation and in fact showed great restraint; there is no humanitarian crisis in Gaza; the blockade is totally justified & this was a totally valid defense of Israeli citizens (albeit with, sometimes, a grudging admittance that the raid was executed poorly); all the problems with the peace process are on the Palestinian side, mostly w/Hamas (tho the PA & Abbas also catch some heat); international public opinion against Israel is biased & totally unwarranted. the spin is heavy, heavy, heavy. more what you'd expect, after that day or two of heavy-handed fumbling.
 
padraig (u.s.)

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
also I forgot one more key point of the spin - a wholesale smearing/blaming of the Turkish govt for the raid. I have to say that again I really think the Israelis & their supporters are just shooting Israel in the foot (more like blowing the foot right off) with this one, aside from it being a bit rich to conveniently begin launching all these denunciations now. they should be doing just the opposite, but I guess that wouldn't fit into the overall strategy of denial, blaming everyone else, etc
 
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droid

Guest
From a Dubliner:

Im just back from the protest in town, got down to the Israeli embassy about 8 pm and after a bit the Rachel Corrie was contacted on sat phone, Denis Halliday spoke to the crowd for about 2 mins, says they are 200 miles away and its full steam ahead. Dont think they are stopping or turning around for anything
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vimothy

vimothy

yurp
Why didn’t Israel’s leaders choose to deal with the flotilla in a more judicious fashion? Were they that stupid, or just crazy? From the details of the plan it appears that Netanyahu and his cohorts had envisioned Entebbe Part Deux, a daring anti-terror raid that would lift the sinking morale of the Israeli public while intimidating Iran and the Arab world. Though Israel may be more isolated than ever as a result of the massacre, the Netanyahu administration is reaping considerable political benefits at home.

The day after the massacre, spontaneous celebrations broke out in Ashdod, Tel Aviv, and throughout the country, bringing together right-wing elements with everyday Israelis. Over a thousand Israelis gathered tonight outside the Turkish embassy in Tel Aviv to rally against the Turkish government and express their support for the raid. Multiple demonstrators including one man who has lived in Israel for 60 years told me, “What Turkey [the sponsor of the Mavi Marmara boat] has done is great. I have never seen this country more united in my entire life. We are all standing together now.” (Video coming soon).

Israeli newscasters are routinely using the term “mechabel,” or terrorist, to refer to the flotilla activists, while the violence that broke out on the deck of the Mavi Marmara is called “the lynch.” (Nevermind that zero commandos were hung and nine activists were killed, including an American citizen who was shot in the head four times.) No evidence is required to support claims in the Israeli media. The public desperately wants to believe that its government is right, so much so that Israel’s media is not even making a token effort to challenge the increasingly hysterical press releases disseminated by the IDF press office every few hours.

Hanin Zoabi, a Palestinian-Israeli member of the Knesset who was on the Mavi Marmara, was physically accosted in the Knesset by fellow legislators for attempting to relate her experience aboard the flotilla. MK Miri Regev of Likud called her a “traitor,” while Yoel Hasson of Kadima, a supposedly centrist party, denounced Zoabi as a “terrorist.” An Israeli Facebook group devoted to inciting Zoabi’s assassination has gathered 600 members in just a day and a half. In the meantime, Israel’s Interior Minster Eli Yishai is “looking into” means of stripping Zoabi of her citizenship.

This Friday, anti-occupation activists expect to encounter intense violence from the Israeli Army and Border Police at the weekly demonstrations in Sheikh Jarrah and Nebi Salah. “In this atmosphere, you can expect with pretty reasonable certainty that the soldiers will go crazy,” a veteran of the Sheikh Jarrah protest movement told me.

With two more ships on their way towards Gaza with aid for the besieged civilian population, the Israeli military and Netanyahu administration are not wasting time in hatching a new strategy to stop them. Once again, the plan calls for violence and possibly more death. “Next time we’ll use more force,” a top Naval commander told the Jerusalem Post. “We will have to come prepared in the future as if it was a war.”
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http://maxblumenthal.com/2010/06/th...idf-detailed-its-violent-strategy-in-advance/

Israel's attitude is very worrying. Embracing rogue status does not seem like a sensible or sustainable strategy.
 
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