Since it's been a while since we had an Israel/Palestine thread...
- Thread starter Mr. Tea
- Start date
-
- Tags
- 0898-biscetti barf emoji basking perchance childlike tripe craner's been mossad from day one craner's philosemitic pussy eating poetry dissensus gets fatwa'd fatwa sex hmt govt hat keinen schwand jamaican voodoo gang from predator 2 knob v cretin linebaugh's balls ground into dust mixed biscuits dumped his pregnant girlfriend mixed biscuits is a virgin but he has clamydia mixed biscuits: jew for jesus nastiness new tab for trotsky proxy wars pussyclaat voodoo gang from predator 2 strictly for the consequentialist tea and biscuits the cancellation of stan the fundamentalist core of mr tea the hegel reference the lust to execute oliver craner the mythifus of sisyphus third cares for his okra third neglects his okra third puts okra up his bum underschooled undergrads
well, someone has to atone for their goa sins.
@luka loves this sort of thing, that's why he said he's Israel.
chava
Well-known member
Oh there is no goa virus around AFAIK. The Free Palestine dj types do play hardtrance however
ah yes. well, hard trance can have its innocent proletarian charm in the right conditions. Unlike goa which is the saudi arabia of electronic music, minus the Islamism. Over important nouveau rich twats with their overimportant spiritual quests and om shiva shanti shit.
Don't deny you gurned your bollocks off to this in 1995
Dave the rave Davis! pure proletarian free palestine.
chava
Well-known member
I'm looking for a Israeli psytrance remix of Muslimgauze. Must be there somewhere
let me know when you find it. Would be one of the better products of Israel. Even their humus doesn't really cut it for me.
You know they make like 15 xerox copies of turkish/kurdish pop songs. It's mental. I saw an interview with Ibrahim Tatlises (famous kurdish singer from my home city) on Israeli tv and the journos were gushing about how there are 15 versions of his bebegim hit. Bit excessive but hey I guess when your secular ashkenazi identity is seen as too permissive and liberal by most of your mizrahi population such bizarre culture clashes are inevitable.
mixed_biscuits
_________________________
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
assuming you mean the war and not this thread
Hard to say rn, a lot depends on U.S. and Israeli domestic politics. This Israeli govt would prefer to just reoccupy Gaza which is a total non-starter for Biden but which Trump would probably countenance. A Gantz/Lapid govt would almost certainly be less aggressive. A security buffer on the Gaza side of the border is a possible compromise. New or resettlement is unlikely in any event, tho possible if Gaza winds up under Israeli occupation. The WB will continue to be a lawless mess, tho a new govt without Kahanists and settler fanatics in the cabinet will rein it in a bit (which is already happening, actually).
The major unresolved issues are 1) what would that new administration of Gaza look like? The PA is massively unpopular and I haven't heard of any concrete 3rd party proposals 2) Netanyahu. Will he somehow weather the storm and hang on until 2026? If he stays and this govt is in power everything is much harder 3) whither the remnants of Hamas? it's possible, especially with indefinite Israeli occupation, the war turns into a low-intensity conflict. The IDF has badly wounded but not eradicated Hamas (and the smaller militant groups), and created a new generation of recruits. Another Lebanon type quagmire is entirely possible.
My guess is that Netanyahu clings to power at least for the next few months and the war does transition into an indefinite occupation/LIC rather than an official ending. Economically if for no other reason Israel can't maintain this level of reserve mobilization and war footing indefinitely, even with massive U.S. aid, so it will have to scale back at some point.
The Netanyahu dream is to drag the U.S. into a regional war with Iran etc but I find that very unlikely. No one besides him wants it. Iran and its proxies have basically kept their powder dry while doing enough to keep up appearances.
Is it not slightly absurd to suggest that anyone will be 'administering' gaza after this? The 1.85 million displaced people have nowhere left to go back to, it's all rubble. It was near impossible to build anything prior to this due to strict restrictions on material imports so how exactly are they gonna rebuild? Medics and hospitals have been decimated, disease has already started to rip through the populace. All the universities and schools are destroyed along with most of the mosques and churches. There's nothing left and plan for those left alive.
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
Neither of those points are really true
The IDF isn't trying to maximize civilian casualties - tho idk if that was exactly your meaning - it just doesn't care about them as a general rule. When the eyes of Western media are on them they make a big show of the "most moral army on earth" nonsense but when they're free to operate without that scrutiny the basic attitude is indifference. And collective punishment - sometimes in cycles of intercommunal violence (pre-48 Yishuv or current WB), sometimes in one-sided wars - has been Israeli policy since the 1930s.
And the IDF oversells its level of technological sophistication for propaganda or military-industrial complex reasons, as tbf most powerful militaries do. The hard sell of the new AI targeting apparatus, but they did the same thing with the Iron Dome. Meanwhile almost half of the bombs dropped on Gaza have been unguided "dumb" munitions, which speaks to both points - overhyping technological sophistication and a general indifference to civilian casualties.
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
Sure. "Administer" is probably a euphemism at this point, but what better word would you suggest? UNRWA and other NGOs will do their best to combat the humanitarian disaster but there will have to be some kind of administrative body. The alternative is direct Israeli rule.
I wouldn't say they're trying to 'maximise' civilian casualties, but the litany of deliberate targeting of civilians, the sniping of children in churches, the bombing of maternity wards etc. suggest something more than callous disregard or indifference - its quite purposeful.
I dunno. But this is all predicated on the idea that there will be anyway for people to live in Gaza after this. it seems clear at this stage that there wont be, and again, thats quite deliberate. There was still rubble from WWII in British cities until the early-mid 70s, what hope does gaza have?
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
I'd agree there is a point at which indifference and dehumanization combine to create purposeful targeting of civilian. I'm talking more at the policy level. IDF high command isn't setting out to kill as many civilians as possible.
The IDF are like American cops (or maybe just cops in general). There isn't an active policy to harm civilians but the system creates conditions where it's acceptable. Individual soldiers can be more or less humane within that system but the main point is that the acceptable standard for killing civilians is low and there are virtually zero consequences. The WB is an closer parallel to cops, outside of an active warzone.
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
The alternative is the eternal Israeli fantasy of refugees camps in the Sinai, which besides being a total nonstarter with Egypt would just take the humanitarian disaster and move it a few miles south.
What's your answer here?
Incidentally there was an editorial in Haaretz today calling for a Marshall Plan for Gaza. I doubt the likelihood but it's at least in the air.
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
It's alrite dude
I'm not expecting people to have the same level of engagement I do, especially about Israeli politics and society, but yeah I think it's a good rule of thumb for any American to at least try to know something about any war our govt is funding, whether that's in Ukraine or Palestine or wherever. I'm not talking about the social media pressure to have takes on the discourse or whatever, just a basic awareness of what your tax dollars are going to.
I'd 1000x rather clunky attempts at banter than aloof galaxy-brain "actually caring is dumb" takes from gus etc
I basically post here for myself, my friends here, and the lurkers, probably in that order. If other people engage or learn something, great, but if not, also fine.
I don't have an answer, and I don't think Israel has an answer. They're just gonna continue to destroy any last vestige of a liveable environment and the possibility of even a semi-functional society and then presumably just walk away leaving the population irreparably traumatised, dying from disease and picking the dead bodies of thousands of children from the rubble
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
Well sure the Israeli answer is to just blame everything on Hamas and ignore the obvious consequences of destroying Gaza. The degree to which that's intentional at a policy level vs simple callousness is what's unclear.
As I said idk if they'll walk away, tho for security rather than any kind of humanitarian reasons. I suspect they'll have guys with rifles patrolling the rubble for quite a while.
As I said idk if they'll walk away, tho for security rather than any kind of humanitarian reasons. I suspect they'll have guys with rifles patrolling the rubble for quite a while.