Since it's been a while since we had an Israel/Palestine thread...

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GhostofKinski

Well-known member
version said:
Mr. Tea said:
Oh right, the old "'Please stop doing this' is code for 'Hitler was
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I read it differently. Which is interesting, how we all look at a simple rhetorical question and interpret it so differently.

I’ve seen NGO human rights groups reporting on not only the targeting of civilians, hospitals, water, power supplies, all war crimes. But, the reports of up to 10 children a day having to undergo limb amputation without anesthesia, go virtually unreported by corporate news. Yet, (DC) this senseless act of violence is front page news.
 
version

version

Well-known member
It's what Tea said. They're placing the blame on European leaders for what happened in DC because they've been criticising Israeli policy and apparently that amounts to "stoking antisemitism and siding with Hamas".

www.theguardian.com

Netanyahu accused of slander after criticising Macron, Carney and Starmer

Israeli leader’s antisemitism claim labelled defamatory as he is warned against pursuing a war without end
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
 
william_kent

william_kent

Well-known member
GhostofKinski said:
I read it differently. Which is interesting, how we all look at a simple rhetorical question and interpret it so differently.

I’ve seen NGO human rights groups reporting on not only the targeting of civilians, hospitals, water, power supplies, all war crimes. But, the reports of up to 10 children a day having to undergo limb amputation without anesthesia, go virtually unreported by corporate news. Yet, (DC) this senseless act of violence is front page news.
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amazingly, SKY NEWS in the UK have been running a series every morning this week on their breakfast news ( 6 am - 7 am slot ) where they have been interviewing volunteer Western doctors working in Gaza / Palestinian hospitals and the PTSD leaps out from the screen - they HAD a connection to the children who have been murdered because their cousin might have had sympathy for Hamas and you can see that they won't recover from the trauma of what they've witnessed after a good night's sleep

but then again, the UK IS TO BLAME for the murder of a "just engaged" couple
 
G

GhostofKinski

Well-known member
william_kent said:
they HAD a connection to the children who have been murdered because their cousin might have had sympathy for Hamas and you can see that they won't recover from the trauma of what they've witnessed after a good night's sleep

but then again, the UK IS TO BLAME for the murder of a "just engaged" couple
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Any caregiver worth thier salt is going to have a connection (empathy) for their patients.
Idk if you were being sarcastic with the suggestion that they may have a cousin with Hamas connects. I didn’t see the sky news report but on my go to news democracynow.org more times than not the DR’s without borders & other on the ground seem to be of Scandanavian & Western European origin. The ambulance personnel perhaps as they are Gazans as well as green light targets for Israeli industrial grade extermination.
 
william_kent

william_kent

Well-known member
GhostofKinski said:
Any caregiver worth thier salt is going to have a connection (empathy) for their patients.
Idk if you were being sarcastic with the suggestion that they may have a cousin with Hamas connects. I didn’t see the sky news report but on my go to news democracynow.org more times than not the DR’s without borders & other on the ground seem to be of Scandanavian & Western European origin. The ambulance personnel perhaps as they are Gazans as well as green light targets for Israeli industrial grade extermination.
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I was not being sarcastic - the doctor was saying that the kid had been put in the bed next to his cousin who was rumoured to be associated with HAMAS because it would have made it easier for the extended family to visit

the doctor was in tears* when he was relating this, this is not something I would ever dream of making jokes about

* edit: he wasn't actually in tears, but they were flowing through his thousand yard dead eye stare, it was obvious this has scarred him for life, emotionally
 
Mr. Tea

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
It's hard not to get the impression that Israel wants and needs to be hated, isn't it? Like it can only justify itself to itself by wallowing in victimhood. Because the real victim here is Israel, under a constant barrage of criticism, rather than Gaza, under a constant barrage of bombs and bullets.
 
G

GhostofKinski

Well-known member
Mr. Tea said:
It's hard not to get the impression that Israel wants and needs to be hated, isn't it? Like it can only justify itself to itself by wallowing in victimhood. Because the real victim here is Israel, under a constant barrage of criticism, rather than Gaza, under a constant barrage of bombs and bullets.
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It sure seems that way. Perpetual victim hood. It’s pathological.
One of my closest friends from work who was born/raised in Brooklyn, but served in the IDF. He is convinced that anything short of annihilating Gaza is a sign of surrender on Israel’s part. Needless to say we’ve had some contentious conversations. We are tight though because of the battles we fought side by side locked in with psychopaths.
In the U.S., take September 2003 for instance. There were world wide protests against the imminent US invasion of Iraq. There were at least 250 k people on the street (myself among them. That’s in NYC alone. There were large protests in every major city. The divide between popular support and government action is obvious. In Israel where it’s a citizen army, everyone either serves, has served or has a family member/relative who is serving. Beyond the families of the hostages that the current regime really couldn’t care less about, a poll taken/published by Haaretz indicated that 93% of the Israeli population thinks they are using either not enough, or just the right amount of force in Gaza(!) this is a very sick society.
Moreover the religious zealots. Not a few of whom previously called Brooklyn home have been exhibiting violent cruelty to the Palestinians in the West Bank with lethal consequences. Just on a smaller scale.


As an aside; I believe in mandatory national service. It wouldn’t necessarily have to be strictly military. I think it would make most Americans who couldn’t care any less about
International policies, as well as national, a stake in ensuring transparency and justice.
When we had the draft (conscription) it was almost exclusively the working class/poor who did the fighting/dying/killing.
I also feel, in my case anyway having to go through the military was a rite of passage into manhood all too rare for certain segments of society.
 
G

GhostofKinski

Well-known member
shiels said:
Mandatory military service is essentially slavery and the core component to Israel’s brainwashing genocidal system you mad cunt
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I clearly stated it need not be military. There are plenty of civil sectors where one can/should be allowed to choose.

Israel is a theocratic/ethno apartheid state.
I know of many civilized countries in Europe have mandatory national service and it has been a strength not a weakness for them.

In the U.S. we have a multicultural republic. The dangers are not the same.
When there was conscription here, and I’m keeping it pretty recent. The draft was the leverage that mobilized the youth to play a very vital role in ending the Vietnam war. It came with too many caveats & exemptions though (see Trump, Dick Cheney) & plenty other rich/elites who never met a war they didn’t love.
So long as they didn’t have to fight in it.
The reason the draft was abolished here at precisely the same time wages stagnated is no coincidence.

I went back to school and didn’t pay a cent through the GI bill. College costs a lot of money here.
I was essentially a fugitive speeding toward oblivion when I went in though. In retrospect it may have saved my life. I know that it has helped countless people who wouldn’t have otherwise
Found something in themselves they might not have found.

If you are familiar with Joseph Campbell who wrote ‘The Power of Myth’
You might recognize the coming of age/rites of passage myths and practices in virtually every culture that has been recorded. You might understand my point better.

If there had been mandatory service and not the wage slaves that currently are the vast majority of enlisted military personnel, the invasion and destruction of Iraq (in my estimation) would not have happened. What might be a reasonable idea in one country might be absurd in another. In the U.S. where everything from health care to higher education is a commodity to be bought and sold.
A national service of some kind might be an alternative for attaining some of these gains.
 
Mr. Tea

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
GhostofKinski said:
I clearly stated it need not be military. There are plenty of civil sectors where one can/should be allowed to choose.

Israel is a theocratic/ethno apartheid state.
I know of many civilized countries in Europe have mandatory national service and it has been a strength not a weakness for them.

In the U.S. we have a multicultural republic. The dangers are not the same.
When there was conscription here, and I’m keeping it pretty recent. The draft was the leverage that mobilized the youth to play a very vital role in ending the Vietnam war. It came with too many caveats & exemptions though (see Trump, Dick Cheney) & plenty other rich/elites who never met a war they didn’t love.
So long as they didn’t have to fight in it.
The reason the draft was abolished here at precisely the same time wages stagnated is no coincidence.

I went back to school and didn’t pay a cent through the GI bill. College costs a lot of money here.
I was essentially a fugitive speeding toward oblivion when I went in though. In retrospect it may have saved my life. I know that it has helped countless people who wouldn’t have otherwise
Found something in themselves they might not have found.

If you are familiar with Joseph Campbell who wrote ‘The Power of Myth’
You might recognize the coming of age/rites of passage myths and practices in virtually every culture that has been recorded. You might understand my point better.

If there had been mandatory service and not the wage slaves that currently are the vast majority of enlisted military personnel, the invasion and destruction of Iraq (in my estimation) would not have happened. What might be a reasonable idea in one country might be absurd in another. In the U.S. where everything from health care to higher education is a commodity to be bought and sold.
A national service of some kind might be an alternative for attaining some of these gains.
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You suggesting just men, or everyone?
 
mixed_biscuits

mixed_biscuits

_________________________
The police had to apologise to the activist don Peter Tatchell after arresting him for being the only man at a demo with a halfway nuanced understanding of events: his sign demanded an end to both Israeli genocide and Hamas execution of Palestinian dissidents.

That man is a true progressive, as he can apply his principles across simplistic tribal lines. Watch and learn, children.
 
T

thirdform

pass the sick bucket
mixed_biscuits said:
The police had to apologise to the activist don Peter Tatchell after arresting him for being the only man at a demo with a halfway nuanced understanding of events: his sign demanded an end to both Israeli genocide and Hamas execution of Palestinian dissidents.

That man is a true progressive, as he can apply his principles across simplistic tribal lines. Watch and learn, children.
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Will you retract this when you realise that don dada peter tatchell was against the puberty blockers ban? I mean given you dismiss marxist criticisms of hamas for being nefarious.
 
T

thirdform

pass the sick bucket
mixed_biscuits said:
The police had to apologise to the activist don Peter Tatchell after arresting him for being the only man at a demo with a halfway nuanced understanding of events: his sign demanded an end to both Israeli genocide and Hamas execution of Palestinian dissidents.

That man is a true progressive, as he can apply his principles across simplistic tribal lines. Watch and learn, children.
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You keep bighting the hand that feeds you. it's very undignified, you know? and I know you will haha react because you are nothing but a coward armed with blustering moral certainty. Quakerism is on the way out.
 
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