Since it's been a while since we had an Israel/Palestine thread...
- Thread starter Mr. Tea
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shiels
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Sorry I don’t know what this refers to - mixed biscuits?
GhostofKinski
Well-known member
Arguing online is sort of like the special olympics. at the end of the day, even if you win you're still retarded.
version
Well-known member
In this particular instance - the DC shootings - we're talking about a Hispanic bloke in America murdering Israelis. He wasn't oppressed by the Israeli government. He's an idiot who's leapt on stage in the worst way and possibly made the situation even worse for Palestinians.
yyaldrin
in je ogen waait de wind
hamas did not know of the festival happening.
version
Well-known member
This line from Jean-Patrick Manchette quickly came to mind when I first saw the news:
“Politically, they are a public hazard, a true catastrophe for the revolutionary movement. The collapse of leftism into terrorism is the collapse of the revolution into spectacle.”
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
That didn't stop them killing hundreds of obviously civilian people.
Look, "the end justifies the means" is a respectable and honest position. Not necessarily one I agree with, but I can respect it.
But "Hamas was only after soldiers but accidentally killed 800 civilians including about 40 kids" is as absurd a proposition as "The IDF is only after Hamas fighters and if they occasions kill civilians then that's a regrettable error that they go out of their way to avoid."
germaphobian
Well-known member
It's a position that never ever leads to anything good, but only metamorphs into bigger and bigger disasters until you end up with an uber-disaster, the really really big disaster.
germaphobian
Well-known member
Dostoyevsky knew that.
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
Such as the one occurring at the moment, for example.
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
That sounds a bit... elliptical. What's their reasoning?
version
Well-known member
Take a guess.
mixed_biscuits
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@GhostofKinski @shiels I changed Ghost's mind: he claimed that Israel would 'by and large' expel their Arabic citizens but on being pressed for a threshold number he ceded, meaning that he has retracted his original claim for want of any kind of precision.
Similarly, you might claim that Israel has a 'genocidal' attitude to Palestinians but can't explain why it has not removed them from its own territory; the failure to integrate this fact would undermine your claim.
In the Decolonise America thread, Ghost deprecates Native American claims on the land that has been stolen from them but fails to do so in a way that is consonant with other statements on colonisation or indeed common sense.
If you think the average Dissensian is honourable or open-minded enough to admit error (or even understand where or how they've gone wrong), you're somewhat over-optimistic!
mixed_biscuits
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I mean it's taken a few months for the rest of the forum to process that yyaldrin said that Hamas have nothing to apologise for...that's the standard here: very slow movers indeed, loath to go against the grain
Someone in the in-group will inch towards the obvious, another will poke their toe in the water, another will mega-hedge a slightly contrarian position and only then will anyone go all-out. Very conservative people and very amusing when it comes down to it.
This timidity is why they need at least five pints inside them IRL before being able to say anything.
Someone in the in-group will inch towards the obvious, another will poke their toe in the water, another will mega-hedge a slightly contrarian position and only then will anyone go all-out. Very conservative people and very amusing when it comes down to it.
This timidity is why they need at least five pints inside them IRL before being able to say anything.
mixed_biscuits
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the end justifies the means...strange how people can't see that they implicitly take Israel to task for using precisely this justification: Israel posits an almost impossible end - exterminating Hamas (effectively snuffing out an idea) - in order potentially to justify never-ending violent action.
Hamas also choose a far-fetched end - exterminating every Jew on the face of the planet - in order prospectively to justify never-ending violence of unlimited scope.
The two parties mirror each other in this respect.
If both held to virtue ethics and just refused to kill for any end whatsoever then things wouldn't have got anywhere near where they have.
Hamas also choose a far-fetched end - exterminating every Jew on the face of the planet - in order prospectively to justify never-ending violence of unlimited scope.
The two parties mirror each other in this respect.
If both held to virtue ethics and just refused to kill for any end whatsoever then things wouldn't have got anywhere near where they have.